Unusual circumstances that could catch out players and referees

[DeanH]

If someone pots the last red followed by the yellow and the ref then forgets to re-spot the yellow. Striker then pots green and maybe even brown and blue before its noticed that yellow was not re-spotted. Rule is (in this scenario) brown, green and yelow are re-spotted and striker has to pot them again!

where does it say this?
the SRA covers this scenario: last Red potted, Yellow potted but not respotted, Green potted, Brown potted, error discovered.

The yellow will be spotted, but not the Green or Brown; Yellow would be ball on, and then Blue after that, then Pink and Black.

They continue that the error is discovered just before the Black shot;
In such an instance it would be quite possible for the colours to be potted Green, Brown, Blue, Pink, YELLOW, Black quite legally.

Only the yellow spotted, all other balls remain where they are, (i.e. not respotted).


Sec 3.7
(c) If a stroke is made with a ball or balls not correctly spotted, they will be considered to be correctly spotted for subsequent strokes. Any colour incorrectly missing from the table will be spotted:
(i) without penalty when discovered if missing due to previous oversight;
(ii) subject to penalty if the striker played before the referee was able to effect the spotting.

[Bigmeek]

Hi Dean, there was a thread about this a year or so ago. Lots of debate! I said at the time that the rule was "tuff you're too late just carry on with break" however I checked it out with a qualified ref and he confirmed that the balls are respotted. I was astounded. Interestingly the ref told me that this scenario had been included in a recent ref's exam and not many people got the answer right.

[DeanH]

Hi Dean, there was a thread about this a year or so ago. Lots of debate! I said at the time that the rule was "tuff you're too late just carry on with break" however I checked it out with a qualified ref and he confirmed that the balls are respotted. I was astounded. Interestingly the ref told me that this scenario had been included in a recent ref's exam and not many people got the answer right.

Interesting - I will send a question to a top ref I am in contact with to ask his thoughts

[Bigmeek]

Interesting - I will send a question to a top ref I am in contact with to ask his thoughts

Thx mate. Look forward to the answer. Still say that my solution is the best. "Tuff you're too late"! Hope it never happens to me when I'm reffing.

[Londonlad147]

Only the yellow ball will be respotted in such a scenario. The green, brown etc would never be respotted.

This question has been discussed at length over the years, including the rules committee and the EBSA tutors and examiners, and that's the ultimate interpretation, accepted by all.

(c) If a stroke is made with a ball or balls not correctly spotted, they will be considered to be correctly spotted for subsequent strokes. Any colour incorrectly missing from the table will be spotted:
(i) without penalty when discovered if missing due to previous oversight;
(ii) subject to penalty if the striker played before the referee was able to effect the spotting.

3.7(c) clearly says any that any missing balls will be spotted when discovered, generally without penalty unless the striker has played without allowing sufficient time for the ref to respot a ball. Nowhere do the rules say anything about all potted balls being respotted!

The opening sentence of 3.7(c) indicates that any balls are considered to be correctly spotted for subsequent strokes, so the green, brown etc would be considered to be validly potted, along with the associated reds. The suggestion that the green and brown get spotted and potted again, that's ridiculous.

[Bigmeek]

Good enough for me! Thx Londonlad.

[markz]

I had an unusual finish to a frame against a guy I'd beaten the last twice 13-0 and 12-1.

Only the colours were left on and he left me in balls with a foul and I couldn't see the on ball which is yellow so he gave me a free ball. I chose blue as my free ball and he put it back on table but didn't declare score. My own mistake is then I'd thought the free blue counted as a red so I potted blue again and got back on the yellow. Opponent calls foul and explains no reds so my free ball was an extra yellow then proper yellow ball on then. So he took 5 foul points, I asked why not call the break as 2 once ball was potted or tell me instead of waiting to see me play wrong ball. I should've switched on to the yellow situation but left sour taste as I couldn't watch someone do that without saying in friendly match.

[Billy]

Commentator on the current match just described a situation Selt found himself involved in during a recent tournament, in which a re-rack occurred with only pink and black remaining. Apparently they became wedged in a pocket in such a way neither player was ever going to make a mistake.

What would have happened if this had occurred when one of the players required a snooker?

[Londonlad147]

Commentator on the current match just described a situation Selt found himself involved in during a recent tournament, in which a re-rack occurred with only pink and black remaining. Apparently they became wedged in a pocket in such a way neither player was ever going to make a mistake.

What would have happened if this had occurred when one of the players required a snooker?

If you have a stalemate (and it happened in the EBSA or IBSF championships a few years ago, when only black was left), then the frame is re-started. Both players will have been warned that unless the situation was resolved that a re-start would be in order, and if the player in front hasn't taken steps to do anything then that's his lookout, and he takes his chance on a fresh frame from a 0-0 start.

[Shockerz]

I had an unusual finish to a frame against a guy I'd beaten the last twice 13-0 and 12-1.

Only the colours were left on and he left me in balls with a foul and I couldn't see the on ball which is yellow so he gave me a free ball. I chose blue as my free ball and he put it back on table but didn't declare score. My own mistake is then I'd thought the free blue counted as a red so I potted blue again and got back on the yellow. Opponent calls foul and explains no reds so my free ball was an extra yellow then proper yellow ball on then. So he took 5 foul points, I asked why not call the break as 2 once ball was potted or tell me instead of waiting to see me play wrong ball. I should've switched on to the yellow situation but left sour taste as I couldn't watch someone do that without saying in friendly match.

Obviously desperate to win a frame markz!

[markz]

Obviously desperate to win a frame markz!

I think you're right mate. I play for fun so I'd always speak up on something like that as I'd not feel I'd won the frame honestly and in the spirit of the game. Like the guys that say it's a foul if you've not declared the free ball even if it's obvious. Some players have a locker full of tricks to fall back on lol

[Shockerz]

I think you're right mate. I play for fun so I'd always speak up on something like that as I'd not feel I'd won the frame honestly and in the spirit of the game. Like the guys that say it's a foul if you've not declared the free ball even if it's obvious. Some players have a locker full of tricks to fall back on lol

I called a push shot on myself a few weeks ago in a match as I just wasn't sure; it didn't feel right, the ref was fine but I just said take it as not sure so foul 4.

Later in the frame the guy miscues over the top of the ball and the top of the white bounces on his cue shaft a couple of times.

The guy walks away, the ref didn't say anything. I stared at the guy, nothing. Makes you wonder why you bother but I scraped through so gotta let it go, we all have different objectives!!

[Billy]

If you have a stalemate (and it happened in the EBSA or IBSF championships a few years ago, when only black was left), then the frame is re-started. Both players will have been warned that unless the situation was resolved that a re-start would be in order, and if the player in front hasn't taken steps to do anything then that's his lookout, and he takes his chance on a fresh frame from a 0-0 start.

So the score is 65 to 52 when the pink and black get wedged in the pocket, and the rule is the player on 65 is pretty much forced to either throw the frame away (by taking the initiative, the resulting unavoidable foul of which will surely hand his opponent the frame) or agreeing to a re-rack to a frame he already had one foot in?

Seems fair :ambivalence:

That said, this does assume a rather bizarre situation where the initiative can't be taken without fouling.

[Londonlad147]

So the score is 65 to 52 when the pink and black get wedged in the pocket, and the rule is the player on 65 is pretty much forced to either throw the frame away (by taking the initiative, the resulting unavoidable foul of which will surely hand his opponent the frame) or agreeing to a re-rack to a frame he already had one foot in?

Seems fair :ambivalence:

That said, this does assume a rather bizarre situation where the initiative can't be taken without fouling.

I'd be interested to know what the alternatives are. Sorry, but it's been my birthday on a pool league night, so more than usual quantitiues of alcohol have been consumed...

[Billy]

I'd be interested to know what the alternatives are. Sorry, but it's been my birthday on a pool league night, so more than usual quantitiues of alcohol have been consumed...

Good man! Inebriation is your friend. And bravo on your faultless spelling and grammar while sloshed.