Foul and a Miss

[catania]

Foul and a Miss is commited when playing on nominated colour(eg. blue) after potting a Red.

1.The player who committed the foul is requested to play again the next stroke from the original position.
Must he play again on Blue or can he play on another colour ?
2.The player who committed the foul is requested to play again the next stroke from the position left.
Must he play on Red ?

[Londonlad147]

The default ball on after a foul is red or lowest colour ball on the table.

If a non-offender asks the offender to play again from the original position after a F&M call, then the non-offender will have exactly the same choices as he had when he was playing the original shot.

So....

1) No, he can play at any colour
2) Yes, he's now on a red

[tmax]

Player on a break snooker's himself - nominates blue and fairs to hit the blue first - Referee calls a foul and a miss:

Opponent can play his next turn from the position left

Or he can request the balls are put back and the original striker has to reply his turn - meaning he is still on a coloured ball, but he can choose any of the 6 colours, usually he would replay he original shot on the blue

OR

The opponent can request the original striker plays from the position left after the foul - i.e. the play again rule - This would mean the original striker is playing the ball on - A red if reds are on the table or whichever colour is on after reds have been cleared.

---

I do remember a match (think it was Ronnie v John Higgins) - Ronnie was snookered on his colour, and kept failing to hit his nomination - By accident he fouled by feathering the white, a foul was called (but no miss !!!) - Higgins put O'Sullivan back in thinking he was still on his snookered colour, but of course the ball on was now a red !!!! - Ronnie turned his stance and potted the nearest red !!!!!

[Odrl]

I do remember a match (think it was Ronnie v John Higgins) - Ronnie was snookered on his colour, and kept failing to hit his nomination - By accident he fouled by feathering the white, a foul was called (but no miss !!!) - Higgins put O'Sullivan back in thinking he was still on his snookered colour, but of course the ball on was now a red !!!! - Ronnie turned his stance and potted the nearest red !!!!!

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the semi-finals of the 2009 UK Championship, but that last part about O'Sullivan potting a red never happened. If I remember correctly, Higgins actually took the shot himself and messed up a safety attempt. :smile:

[Londonlad147]

I do remember a match (think it was Ronnie v John Higgins) - Ronnie was snookered on his colour, and kept failing to hit his nomination - By accident he fouled by feathering the white, a foul was called (but no miss !!!) - Higgins put O'Sullivan back in thinking he was still on his snookered colour, but of course the ball on was now a red !!!! - Ronnie turned his stance and potted the nearest red !!!!!

Of course the rules have now been changed as a result of that incident. Take a look at s3.11(i).

(i) If a striker, when snookered or hampered in any way, fouls any ball
including the cueball while preparing to play a stroke, if requested by his opponent to play again, the opponent shall have the choice as to whether the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the infringement, namely:
(i) Any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) The colour on where all the Reds were off the table; or either
(iii) A colour of the striker‟s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted; or
(iv) The option of playing the next Red or Yellow when there are no Reds remaining.
Any ball(s) moved shall be replaced to their original position(s) by the referee if requested by the non-offender.

[Steve748]

What happens when it is impossible for the correct ball to be hit? If the cue ball is surrounded by reds and there is no way to escape to hit a colour? Or if the cue ball is behind a couple of colours and it is impossible to hit a red? I'm confused by the miss rule when a miss is repeatedly called and the player is obviously trying to hit the ball.

[DeanH]

the "Impossible to hit" scenario is covered by the first section of the Foul and a Miss rule:

sec 3.14 Foul and a Miss
(a) The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on or a ball that could be on after a Red has been potted. If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS unless:
(i) any player needed penalty points before, or as a result of, the stroke being played;
(ii) before or after the stroke, the points available on the table are equal to the points difference excluding the value of the re-spotted black; and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.
(iii) a situation exists where it is impossible to hit the ball on.
In the latter case it must be assumed the striker is attempting to hit the ball on provided that he plays, directly or indirectly, at the ball on with sufficient strength, in the referee's opinion, to have reached the ball on but for the obstructing ball or balls.

The Impossible scenario means impossible - not just "very very difficult" or even "effing 'ell that's effing a b*****d"
Impossible is where, as you say, either the cue ball or the ball on are surrounded by intervening balls.

So in this case a F&M wont be called, and the player has to attempt in direction, strength to hit the ball on; they will be called Foul but not a Miss - so the replace of balls wont occur.

[Noelos237]

When playing a casual game with no referee, who judges whether it is a miss or not?

[DeanH]

When playing a casual game with no referee, who judges whether it is a miss or not?

When there is no assigned referee, the non-striker takes the role.
Also when just friends playing, it is often that it is agreed that the F&M will not be played, i.e. the balls wont be replaced but the usual two options of Play again or Play yourself from where they come to rest apply


oops, sorry for the "Edit"

[Noelos237]

Thanks Dean, that’s very helpful.

[qc2]

When there is no assigned referee, the non-striker takes the role.
Also when just friends playing, it is often that it is agreed that the F&M will not be played, i.e. the balls wont be replaced but the usual two options of Play again or Play yourself from where they come to rest apply


oops, sorry for the "Edit"

I noticed on another table they were re-spotting fouls even though when not snookered they were still struggling to hit the right balls

[DeanH]

I noticed on another table they were re-spotting fouls even though when not snookered they were still struggling to hit the right balls

Do you mean respotting (putting back on the spot after being pocketed) or replacing (back to where they were before the miss)?
It is funny what you see on other tables in clubs, I do have to bite my lip sometimes

[catania]

Another question about Foul and a Miss rule :
"If the referee considers the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS
unless:
(i)
any player needed penalty points before, or as a result of, the stroke being played;
(ii)
before or after the stroke , the points available on the table are equal to the points difference excluding the value of the re-spotted black;
and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional."

If there is a score difference 60 and points avalaible on the table are 59 then ´Foul and a miss´ cannot be called,regardless who is leading and regardless who made a foul?
If there is a score difference 60 and points avalaible on the table are 60 then ´Foul and a miss´ is called when the foul was intentional ?
This seems to me a little bit unlogical.

[DeanH]

Not illogical to me - if a player plays an intentional foul, i.e. does not attempt in any manner to hit the ball on, then a Miss should be called regardless of the scores before or after; intentional fouls must be punished by the Miss being called and possibly the non-offending player being left in a disadvantaged position due to the intentional foul.

With the miss being called then the balls can be respotted and the offending player play again.

If the intentional fouls persist then the referee shall warn the offending player that if they continue the frame will be awarded to the non-offending player - and this could even be that the offending player has the higher score

[catania]

But the call Foul and a Miss is depending on the score difference.
This is for me illogical.