Cue ball foul

[derwent]

Hello all. Here's a question that's causing much debate in the team.

Player one goes in off, in the green pocket, next to where he's standing. He picks the cue ball from the ball rack and places it in the D for his opponent. As he's putting it down, he drops it onto the brown, knocking it off its spot.

One suggestion is that it's a foul 4, for the in-off...brown is replaced and the cue ball is in-hand for player two.

Or, is it foul 4 for the in-off plus foul 7 dropping a ball onto another and the brown stays where it's moved to. Cue ball in hand for player two.

Help!

Best regards. Derwent.

[DeanH]

Cue ball foul

I would suggest that player 1 was acting as a referee when retrieving the cue ball: so replace the balls as best as before, 4 penalty points for the in off but nothing for the dropping onto another ball (never heard of that one ) and player 2 continues with ball in hand .

[Bigmeek]

I would suggest that player A was acting as a referee and so replace the balls as best as before, no penalty points, and player B ball in hand continues.

Seems fair. The rules state that in a game where there is no referee the non-striker is the referee. Only question for me would be given that the cue ball has come to rest in the pocket then Player A's shot is over and he is effectively the non-striker/referee and can't be penalised for dropping the white?

[DeanH]

Cue ball foul

in addition - penalty points are never cumulative, always the highest value only of the affected ball or balls in the incident.

in your scenario if player 1 maliciously causes the brown to be moved then I would suggest being penalised 4 - value of the ball affected.
if say the brown maliciously moved and that brown hits the blue into a pocket - penalty of 5 value of the blue.
player 2 continues with ball in hand from the initial incident.
the two above penalties are instead of the 4 for the initial in off.

[derwent]

Thanks Dean H...that's a very wise suggestion. Can I add...there was a referee in the match. Also...one view was that the ball going in-off was one event (foul 4) and picking the cue ball up and dropping it was a second event (foul 7?)....two separate fouls.

[derwent]

I like the idea of the non striker acting as referee. No harm, no foul.

[Londonlad147]

Although there was a referee, the player was just helping and I wouldn't penalise him for causinga ball in play to be moved. However, as referee I'd certainly warn him to leave the retrieval of balls to me in future! I'd replace any balls to where they were.

A similar scenario: referee is at baulk end of the table near the scoreboard. Striker has gone in off at the top of the table near to where he is. He retrieves the cue ball and rolls it down the table to baulk but it hits the yellow. Referee is at the score board so hasn't been able to stop it. Again, I wouldn't foul the player but would give the warning to leave me to retrieve balls.

[DeanH]

Thanks Dean H...that's a very wise suggestion. Can I add...there was a referee in the match. Also...one view was that the ball going in-off was one event (foul 4) and picking the cue ball up and dropping it was a second event (foul 7?)....two separate fouls.

As LondonLad has said with a referee attending the player would be asked to leave retrieving balls to the ref

Penalties are not cumulative. In your scenario 4 penalty points - the in-off and the fouled brown being the same value.
Fouls committed by the same player.
May be different "events" but in the same part of the game, at the end of one player's turn and the start of the next turn.
Not sure how to explain it clearer.... maybe LL can define better

[derwent]

Thank you DeanH, LondonLad147, Bigmeek; I think you all have it...a fair answer.