Linseed Oil Or Varnish ?

[Wity]

If I could play to that standard Keith I'd gladly trade palms with your son.

[Qubit]

Id say you are very lucky mate. Some people get nervous, but some people are just unlucky enough to suffer from hyperhidrosis (usually inherited) - the medical term for extremely excessive perspiration.

[Wity]

Fair enough, next time I see someone wearing a pool glove or using talc I promise I wont call em them Whacko Jacko ponces then.

[snookaman]

Id say you are very lucky mate. Some people get nervous, but some people are just unlucky enough to suffer from hyperhidrosis (usually inherited) - the medical term for extremely excessive perspiration.

Yes. My elder brother have that problem. You never like to shake hand with him when he's tense up.

[MikeWooldridge]

sorry but i do not agree with much of this thread...

1) oil finish is far superior, and 'smoother' in the hand, than any lacquer/varnish, sure, lacquer is great for bringing the colour out of qood and is perfect for furniture but it wears off cues and is not easy to refinish. whereas oil finishes are easy to bring back to life.

2) don't wear a glove cos you'll look like a knob... (call them what you like wity cos it's true )

3) don't use talc cos you're liable to get punched in the face by the club owner or person responsible for cleaning the tables cos it f***s the cloth and makes a right bloody mess. and some say it causes 'kicks'. plus, you'll look like a knob....

if your hands are sticky/sweaty, wash/wipe them! even if it means doing it every frame.

see here for simple advice to keep your cue smooth:

http://www.handmadecues.com/info/20-cuecare.htm

[keith auld]

guitars are finished with lacquer and none of my 6 guitars has ever got sticky in the 50 years I've been playing - 1 of my guitars dates back to the 1930's and still has it's original finish. I played as a professional session musician in the 1960's and '70's and clocked up hundreds of hours playing in large and small venues (and still do) and the neck of the guitar has never lost it's lacquer. Since then lacquers have altered and in recent years they've become even more sophisticated and more adaptable - it's just that most people don't have access to them because Health and Safety regulations about carcinogens and cfc's effecting the atmosphere. I have never rubbished using oils on cues and have done so for more years than I care to think - it's just that progress doesn't stand still and in the same way that cues have improved over the years, so have finishes - I understand from a friend of mine that you're in the process of making guitars Mike - do you oil them as well??????????

[MikeWooldridge]

lacquer has it's place, but in my opinion, it does not belong on a cue.

of course it offers protection and can bring colours out, but i'm only interested in the 'feel' and playability.

for me, an oil finish cannot be beaten as far as cues go, and if anyone wants a cue that glides through the hand, then oil finish (a good oil finish, done well) is the best option.

i did assume you were talking of a very thin lacquer finish, and in my experience, these do wear on the butt where the hand grips the cue. of course, if you are talking about a thicker finish like that found on guitars then yes, i am sure it will never wear off completely.

but is that a desirable cue butt finish? not in my opinion.

i'm not criticising your choice of finish. from your furniture pics, it certainly looks like you do a lovely job. but people here are asking what finish is best for a cue and i have to stand up and state 100% that i am against lacquered/varnished cues and can only recommend an oil finish based purely on the all important 'feel' factor.

guitars are a different kettle of fish. you've been slightly misinformed. i made a couple of guitars 20 years ago. it was fun, but i was already on the cue making road and it fell by the wayside.

both electric guitars made from brazilian mahogany. i got my friend, a specialist paint sprayer, to finish one, which he did fantastically. and the other i put a beautiful birds eye maple veneer on the top and finished myself with thin lacquer.

interesting to hear you're a musician. so am i. must be something in the brain of cuemakers...

i gig with my martin electro acoustic which has a hand rubbed oil finished sitka spruce top. gorgeous. and just three days ago took delivery of my new baby, a custom shop gibson les paul junior double cutaway tv model, which has a painted and lacquered finish.

would i finish a guitar with oil? yes. but without doubt most guitars are more suited to a more protective finish like lacquer. it's not my field of expertise and i totally admire the fantastic lacquer finishes that i have seen on many guitars. but i wouldn't have a problem using an oil finish as i know exactly what i can achieve with it.

in fact, a friend just bought himself a body from the states and fitted his own neck/hardware etc. and asked me for advice on finish. based on what he was wanting to achieve, i recommended danish oil mainly for the fact that he can always 'top up' the finish as and when needed. plus if he gets any dents he can easily repair it and make it look like new.

i made a point of checking with a good friend, and highly experienced guitar maker/repairer, and he agreed it was a good choice based on the players desired end result.

at the end of the day, there are many different finishes which all have advantages, depending on the use.

for me, cues should be oil finished.

p.s. please pm the name of person who knows i did something with guitars. can't think who we would both know that knew that. cheers...

[keith auld]

the person who told me about your guitar making is Steve Cole (plays for Waterlooville) said you were a good player but hasn't seen you for some time. Glad to know you're a keen musician - seems we did things the other way round - I started in music and came to carpentry later ( hence I'm a crappy snooker player without a century break - close but no cigar) - you seem to have gone from snooker player to musician - it's also good to know you made your on instrument - I've stuck with Gibsons, Washburns and a original Roger semi-solid electric made in Germany in 1932 - the son of this jazz guitar luthier went on to design for Rickenbacker, Fender and Gibson

[MikeWooldridge]

blimey! would never have guessed that!

not seen steve (the grinder) for years. say hello to him for me.

[CueAntW147]

sorry but i do not agree with much of this thread...

1) oil finish is far superior, and 'smoother' in the hand, than any lacquer/varnish, sure, lacquer is great for bringing the colour out of qood and is perfect for furniture but it wears off cues and is not easy to refinish. whereas oil finishes are easy to bring back to life.

2) don't wear a glove cos you'll look like a knob... (call them what you like wity cos it's true )

3) don't use talc cos you're liable to get punched in the face by the club owner or person responsible for cleaning the tables cos it f***s the cloth and makes a right bloody mess. and some say it causes 'kicks'. plus, you'll look like a knob....

if your hands are sticky/sweaty, wash/wipe them! even if it means doing it every frame.

see here for simple advice to keep your cue smooth:

http://www.handmadecues.com/info/20-cuecare.htm

Blimey Mike..... i think you need to say exactly what you think a bit more and don't hold back so much, just say it how it is....it would be much better if your opinion was a bit clearer

lol..must admit though made me smile this post

[edd147]

I would agree with Mike, the feel factor is for me the most important.
I wouldn't in my wildest dreams contemplate buying a cue that's been finished with lacquer.
A couple of mates in the club bought Peradon Handmade Cues and they were lacquered, sticky as h***, not for me.

[ADR147]

oil and or beeswax for me - i always feel if a cue is covered in laquer that somebody is trying to hide something from me!

[keith auld]

each to their own - some people will never get their heads out the sand and experiment and find that the world has moved on and not stuck in the past. There was a member of parlament who in the 1880's suggested that they close the patent office, because he said 'evrything that could be invented, has been; so there's no need to keep this institution open !' - You are obviously not a musician otherwise you will have seen Mike's acceptance that the lacquers used on guitars are infinitely better that standard lacquers available. If you're a guitarist then you'll know that more of the hand on the neck of a guitar is coming into contact with the neck than cue coming into contact with the bridge when cueing. Add to that the conditions most performers have to play under when playing live when you're covered in sweat, your hands are wringing wet and yet there is still the need to use all 24 frets and at speed and be note perfect. Any stickiness under these circumstances wouldn't be acceptable. This was what prompted me to look for alternatives to oils and the like in cuemaking and I've always been one to experiment.
With all due respect to Mike and the others (even to John Parris) - but I've been making cues for a great deal longer than all of you and been using oils for most of that time, and I accept the benefits of oils and will continue to do so should a customer ask me to do so, but, I believe I've found something superior and I find it strange considering you've never felt or seen it, that you can come to a decision that it is inferior to oil and feel that it is hiding a mutitude of sins. I considered ADR that perhaps your judgement was more enlightened than that, now I'm not so sure!

[joe2311]

do you lacquer the whole cue keith or just the butt surely its not like the lacquer they used to put on old cues thats a couple of mm thick i have never used 1 or seen 1 of your cues so cant comment on your finish. but i have used alot of cues and i do perfer oil finished cues i have 2 cues at the moment a wooldridge 1 piece and a old maple cue i had respliced by t white and the finish on both cues is as good as i have ever seen.

[keith auld]

the whole cue is lacquered with 2 coats and then cut back by hand - it's very similar in finish to that that you'd get on a very expensive car. The process was originally developed for the motor industry, hence the need for special spaying facilities. It's difficult to explain the difference between this finish and the oiled finish in as much as when the lacquer is cut back on an ash cue it feels very like the cue has nothing on it at all, except it has a very nice shine and the softwood is sealed so that whilst you get the appearance and response of ash, you get the feel through your bridge hand of a plain maple. It's nothing like the old cues that used to be dipped in a thick lacquer, like the Powerglide and Canadian Adam cues used to be, this process is like a chemical bond that gets into the wood as a sealer and then hardens to give a smooth wrap. It can be sanded back to the bare wood if wanted, but the protection will have sunk into the softwood of the ash and continue to protect it. Obviously if you were to run a retaper and plane the cue down then you would remove the softwood protection and then another type of application would be needed to feed the wood (ie. an oil or similar - or of course a re-spray with this treatment) - I hope this helps explain this a little better and put to rest the assumption that this is like the old lacquer finishes