Tables? Are there any Table Builders here?

[Strickimicki]

I was just wondering is there any real reason for the use of slate for table surfaces?

Wouldn't marble be better? With it being harder and through the polishable surface much smoother than slate? Or maybe even granit its certainly very hard.

I was just thinking about this because I seen a few chipped surfaces over the years that have been kitted!

Has there been any such experiments in the direction of other stone material for the table beds?

Thanks

Brian

[100-uper]

You name the material and it has been tried before: marble, granite, wood, machined steel, even Concrete! Slate has come out on top after extensive trials over the last 200 years.

[Strickimicki]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know why these other materials have not been up to scratch?

Besides them not being as easy to work with.

[Marc]

I would imagine slate comes out on top as you say because its easier, cheaper, and perfect for levelling. Originally snooker and billiard tables were made entirely from wood, with no cloth and no pockets. Hoops were used as the targets (similar to croquet). Later, cloth lined the bed of the table and the early “cushions” which later again were covered with several layers of felt.

[trevs1]

Thanks for the info.

Do you know why these other materials have not been up to scratch?

Besides them not being as easy to work with.

I'd have thought that steel would be very costly to machine that flat, as well as being heavy and very difficult to work for fitters.

Marble is more brittle than slate I think, more expensive and again more tricky to work with at a guess.

I can't imagine concrete being up to it either, as it would still have to be machined in some way for sure wouldn't it? it would also have to be re-inforced, and, it would probably be heavier than slate too.

Granite would be far more expensive to use, almost definitely, ridiculously difficult to work with and if my memory of fitting my kitchen bloody worktops is anything to go by, outrageously heavy too.

I wonder what a granite bedded table would weigh???....nasty.

[LWB]

This might sound ridiculous to most, but I think before any of the other materials mentioned I'd say glass! These days you can do brilliant things with glass, and companies could easily make something hard enough and 100% level. Cost I'd think would be the big issue for now.

[bongo]

That's not ridiculous, LWB, But jump shots in pool would be an issue!

[LWB]

That's not ridiculous, LWB, But jump shots in pool would be an issue!

Not so much really, glass can be made very very hard, you'd pretty much need to be trying to cause damage to do so I believe. I think it would probably suit very well, it's the costs involved that would be the biggest issue I think, but who knows give it a few years.

[100-uper]

I am not an expert in this particular area, but can suggest a few reasons why slate would be preferred over stones like Marble and Granite.

FINANCIAL
- It is cheap: relatively easy to extract from the ground.
- Not as heavy as the alternatives: therefore needing less by way of supporting structure and allowing a cheaper table to be made.
- Quite soft: so can be easily worked without diamond tip cutters and can be hand finished/adjusted.

QUALITY
- Flexibility: Its elasticity is the main difference with the other materials. This is a distinct advantage when levelling.
- Absorbency: Believe it or not, slate will actually absorb moisture from the surface so helping to keep the bedcloth dry resulting in a faster playing surface. Stones like Granite and Marble will have the opposite effect and tend to sweat as condensation is created with temperature variations.

There are no doubt other considerations which I don't know about, like acoustics: early slate beds, which were slightly thinner, used to create a "rumbling" sound as the balls travelled around the table, and the steel framed tables gave off a noticeable "twang" when a ball hit the cushion. It is quite likely that the unique elasticity of the playing surface also has some effect on how balls react with certain types of stroke.

[Darth_Spud]

Isn’t Glass neither a solid nor liquid? Correct me if I’m wrong but over time wouldn’t the glass warp and loose its level or a regular basis, say every 5 years?

[LWB]

I think you'd only need to look at how glass is being used in modern buildings to know that there's no way it's gonna warp under the conditions of a snooker club, at least not within a relevant amount of time. Of course this wouldn't be the normal glass in our houses, but hardened treated glass, which does of course cost a lot of money.

I'm by no mean saying this is definitely going to be used! Just saying that along with the other materials mentioned, you'd also have to consider it.

[moglet]

I have thought before now about glass as a replacement for the better quality slate that is and was available. Glass is slightly less dense than slate, but it is slightly more elastic than slate, we would need a thicker section, maybe 3 inches or more to give the same properties as slate. As 100-uper pointed out it is much more difficult to work (post manufacture) and is just as vulnerable to damage, chipped lips and so on, even allowing for any toughening. The drawback in use would be the noise it would make.
I think we can rest content that the best slate, 2" thick, is the best material, after so long had anything else been suitable we would already be using it.

Also as 100-uper commented, glass is in any useful sense non-absorbent.

[Son of Cliff]

Slate is used due to the cost, (its very cheap). and where it is from. The first tables made used Welsh slate this slate is grey in colour and very dense which means ite pretty heavy stuff with some Tables using 2.5 inch slate weighting up to 4/5 hundred weight each with each table having five slates.

Over time and due to the Welsh slate quarries closing, slate is now used from Italy, this slate is blue in colour and is less dense and so a little lighter and now made 2 inches thick as standard.
You never get a set of slates that are the same and if one of the slates gets badly damaged the other four are useless.
Also on a closing note I used to work for a man called Alan Phillips who had a snooker table company in Hull in the late 70's and we had a Yellow oak match table with 2.5 inch Welsh slate, we used to put this table up about four times a week for exhibitions all over the country for the likes of Alex Higgins, John Virgo and Reardon etc, and my back is still feeling the effects of that Welsh slate until this very day

[Strickimicki]

Son of Cliff I'm real sorry about your back.

We have eight tables at our club. They all have a blueish coloured slate, so it's probably the Italian slate you have mentioned.

Like I mentioned before, I started this thread because of the small chips in the surface of the slate. The tables have been repaired with filler of some kind. It just got me wondering if there are better materials out there, I liked the glass idea.

As to the workabilty of the other materials, all stone material is cutable with high pressure water jets these days. Because of this the cost of production isn't as expensive as it once was.

all the best

Brian

[LWB]

Right now because glass is basically in fashion in modern architecture there's amazing things being done with it. I first thought about it about 6 months ago after watching a couple of episodes of Grand Designs. There are specialist glass companies out there now making custom built hardened laminated glass that would do the job well I'd think. Although I'd stress I'm far from an expert on the subject of snooker tables! But glass can be built to be bullet proof, it can also be built as 'Blast resistant'. It's tough enough I have no doubt, it has to be resistant to the elemts because it's specifically designed to be. But the costs involved, and as mentioned the sound, may be the issue.