Free Ball (rules&questions)

[RaNeN]

I am sure you people must have had a lots of problems regarding FREE-BALL rules.Well I do.
What happens is these cases:
Case 1)I got a FREE-BALL on the last RED and nominate the black as the FREE-BALL .Miss the BLACK and end up hitting the last RED left on the table.Is this a foul?Why? How many points?

Case 2)I got a FREE-BALL on the last two reds and nominate the black as the FREE-BALL .Miss the BLACK and end up hitting the one of the last two REDs left on the table.Is this a foul? Why? How many points?

Case 3)I get a FREE-BALL on the last red on the table I nominate the BLACK as the FREE-BALL and end up potting the BLACK and the RED on the table.Is this a foul? Why? How many points?

Case 4)I get a FREE-BALL on the YELLOW and nominate the GREEN as my FREE-BALL and pot the YELLOW but not the GREEN , but by hitting the GREEN 1st (fluked yellow).Is this a foul? Why? How many points?

Case 5) I get a FREE-BALL on the last RED left on the table , I nominate the BLACK as my FREE-BALL but dont pot it.I try to but unable to pot , but comes in my opponents way on the last RED. i.e he is snookered by the BLACK . Foul? How many points?

In case any of you have any such important or confusing questions regarding FREE-BALL please post them here itself. Got any important FREE-BALL rule to state please do so here.

[Ian Davies]

Ranen,

OK a lot of questions here - I'll try for the ones I kinda know.

Cases 1+2 are the same irrespective of the number of reds left.
I don't think this is a foul, as the free-ball acts as an extra red. The player doesn't have to take the free-ball and can opt to try and get out of the snooker by himself.

case 3
Since the black acts as an extra red, potting both red and FB black, I belive means that you get 2 points; the same as potting 2 reds (?)

case 4
Not sure about this. Dont think its a foul and you get 2 points - open to disussion.

case 5
This is a foul to the value of the nominated ball. In this case a foul 7. The general rule for free-balls is that it can't obstruct the path to the ball-on. It stops players nominating a ball and just rolling up to it.
There's nothing stopping you to hit the free-ball and canon the cue-ball behind another ball. This then counts as a snooker behind the ball you cannoned.

Hope this helps.

Usual dislcaimer:

I am not a professional player, neither am I a qualified ref.
All I know about is the way me and a lot of chums play.

[RaNeN]

For case 1.In case its not a foul as the nominated red acts as an extra red. Does the same rule apply to the colours.Do we consider the nominated colour as an extra colour?

[reverse_side]

the rules are useful and state....

10. Snookered After a Foul
...
(b) It is a foul if the cue-ball should
(i) fail to hit the nominated ball first, or first simultaneously with the ball on, or
(ii) be snookered on all Reds, or the ball on, by the free ball thus nominated, except when the Pink and Black are the only object balls remaining on the table.
(c) If the free ball is potted, it is spotted and the value of the ball on is scored.
(d) If a ball on is potted, after the cue-ball struck the nominated ball first, or simultaneously with a ball on, the ball on is scored and remains off the table.
(e) If both the nominated ball and a ball on are potted, only the ball on is scored unless it was a Red, when each ball potted is scored. The free ball is then spotted and the ball on remains off the table.
(f) If the offender is asked to play again, the free ball call becomes void.
Therefore, if you nominate a replacement ball, you have to hit it and hit it first; although hitting it and the original ball-on at the same time is allowed.

so...

Ian's right that it doesn't matter about the number of reds left; the amount of penalty points depends on the object ball, the next ball on... which changes depending on which the player chooses.
Ian's also right that you'd score 2 points if the FB and a red go in.... more reds, more points too. BUT, no such luck if it's a colour; only the one lot of points is allowed. After the colour goes down, you bring the FB back up but leave the other colour off the table.
Ian right about the yellow scoring without foul, if you pot the ball on but have hit the FB first, then because you've hit the ball you nominated; no foul, ball remains off the table.
I may disagree with Ian with here (first time eh), it's afoul yes but as the Black was a red, then the penalty would be 4. Also, if there's another ball inbetween the cue ball and the red then the black's not the 'snookering ball' so there'd be no foul. As an aside, if there's only the pink and black left, you are allowed to snooker your opponent behind the black when you nominate it as a pink.

1+2; foul 7. (in Pro play or in Leagues where the Miss Rule is used, this would be probably called too because you've not hit the ball on when not in a snooker.
3; 2 points scored, red stays down, Black re-spotted. No foul.
4; 2 scored, yellow stays down - no foul.
5; foul 4. Normal choices: take an FB yourself, make them play again, play it yourself.

good questions.

When I get back from my doubles match, I'll explain a bizarre thing I did in a League match once.... completely taken a legal by everyone watching; like the ref who put the black on the pink spot after Ebbo potted it against Carter.... the black spot was covered previously, but had been cleared subsequently.

ooh, lift's here... ttfn

[Ian Davies]

Well, I make that 4 1/2 from 5 for me.
Nice average

Must get myself a book of rules one of these days instead of relying on what I experience and find out about it after the fact. hehehe

[reverse_side]

90%, get in.

I'm virtually +v about them all... not a ref either but http://www.worldsnooker.com/about_the_rules.htm is virtually identical to the rule book you can buy for about a fiver... I've printed of and pritt sticked the extra section about not being able to concede if you don't need snookers. So it was just a case of my experience plus eye-balls oout reading and re-reading.

weird about the FB on the pink and black eh?

[Ian Davies]

> I'm virtually +v about them all... not a ref either but
> http://www.worldsnooker.com/about_the_rules.htm is virtually identical to the
> rule book you can buy for about a fiver... I've printed of and pritt sticked the
> extra section about not being able to concede if you don't need snookers. So
> it was just a case of my experience plus eye-balls oout reading and
> re-reading.

Usually the best plan. Snooker rooms are few and far between now, when they used to have rules posters stuck up on the wall somewhere, and any debate can be referred to the wall.
You only get those now in V.old social clubs.

> weird about the FB on the pink and black eh?

Never heard about that one.
If I ever got to that situation, I'd be looking at billiards angles and keeping lots of distance and praying for an unintentional in-off.
I suppose it still makes a lot of sense though.

How'd you're match go last night ?

[RaNeN]

I had a brain wave for the FB rule on the last pink and black. I dont mean this seriously though but think this is possible.In case we get a FB on the pink and nominate the black as the free ball and hit the black such that the pink also moves around the table and both of them POT!!!!! We get 6 points dont we???? The black then is respotted???

[reverse_side]

in our social club Ian, there's two framed rule sheets; would need some cutting and pasting to bring them up to date though... last printed in the 70's.... wonder where you can buy modern replacement originals. Checking the 'store' on WSA's website.... bit mother hubbard! (I think I was hintin at ranen to scour the rules section more than anythink)

Match? utterly strange to be frank... friendly though apart from our opponents wishing a foul on us at the end. won 2-1 off handicaps giving them 25 starts.

The turnaround was my partner putting them in an evil snooker with the blue touching ball on it; got 10 off it in the second frame being 1 down, an FB (!) allowed be to get an extra few points for us to end up with me potting the green as frame ball after a few safeties.

You could see they were visibly drained by assuming a win at 45-0 up on 1 frame up best-of-3. We never give up though an we're in the quarters because when we had chances in decider we were glad of them rather than worrying about messing it up.

It was also a good experience playing on their tables because our first League fixture after Christmas is against them and they've moved where they area and lost 1 in transit too..... some essential info will be passed on for sure... a red turned at least 2 inches off line near the black spot, their cushions are dead (and very loud), their cloth is like treacle and it;s right by a noisy bar now..... I'd play in a nightclub, but some may use this as an excuse.

A shot selection of mine on the last red was important; chose to pot the green with reverse-side (!) to come up for the yellow instead of the easy pink over the corner pocket.... just kissed the green wrapping round the back of baulk with running side to only leave a safety. A few safeties then my partner got the green but missed the brown which rolled on and on towards the pink; only the vaguest of contacts would pot it and we'd most likely lose the match as we were only 2 ahead. Somehow it left it touching ball that their player mucked up when a simple cushion first shot would avoid potting the pink and leaving the brown on... raised eyebrows and frowns a-plenty saw me need to cue the brown with lost of bottom left to some on the blue to leave them needing 2 snookers.... we prepared ourselves for an onslaught of tactics when they suddenly just went to shake our hands: take it!

Singles match tonight and then festives until an all-dayer on the 7th; off handichaps.

(oh yeah the wierd thing I did was.... playing in the Sheffield & District League I was snookered on the reds having been awarded an FB with the blue and Black being a set plant to middle.... I nominated the black? potted the blue? took the black? then blue? then said, "hold on, wasn't that a foul?"... took a while to explain, but at least it didn't cost me the frame)

[reverse_side]

I had a brain wave for the FB rule on the last pink and black. I dont mean this seriously though but think this is possible.In case we get a FB on the pink and nominate the black as the free ball and hit the black such that the pink also moves around the table and both of them POT!!!!! We get 6 points dont we???? The black then is respotted???

that's the thing about leaving a reply on the screen for ages... things get posted inbetween - soz.

I'd say you were right ranen; you've hit the ball you nominated and only reds score multiple points; mainly because they can't be 're-spotted'.

Another anomaly is where a player fouls, but ends the shot with the white behind a cushion; angled. I'm looking up what happens about an FB at the mo as this implies you can't have an FB even though you may not be able to see any part of the ball on.

[RaNeN]

???????????????????????????????????????????

[reverse_side]

what?
................

[RaNeN]

"that's the thing about leaving a reply on the screen for ages... things get posted inbetween - soz.

I'd say you were right ranen; you've hit the ball you nominated and only reds score multiple points; mainly because they can't be 're-spotted'.

Another anomaly is where a player fouls, but ends the shot with the white behind a cushion; angled. I'm looking up what happens about an FB at the mo as this implies you can't have an FB even though you may not be able to see any part of the ball on."


I didnt understand wht u meant by this?

[reverse_side]

what part? you've quoted it all, the first and second part make obvious sense.

The unusual situation I've pointed out is that when the white is virtually in the pocket and you can't play the white away in every direction, you're not classed as being snookered... have a look at the WSA rules and you'll read the same as me. SECTION 2. DEFINITIONS part 16.

[RaNeN]

"I'd say you were right ranen; you've hit the ball you nominated and only reds score multiple points; mainly because they can't be 're-spotted'."

You mean angled?