Freeball Question

[Hotshot_147]

Hi Guys, i hope you can clear this up for me.

In a recent doubles match, one of our opponents was trying to pot the final red before the colours. He potted the red and also the white ball.
When the white was placed in the D, I could not see the yellow ball on both sides so i opted to take the freeball. I nominated the green ball(this was the ball blocking my path to the yellow) , i hit the green first and then rolled the white tight behind the brown.The green was now a couple of inches in front of the yellow, all three colours were more or less in line.

Now me and my partner thought i had played a very good shot, but my opponents were addermant i had played a foul shot. Really could not believe they did'nt understand the rules. As far as i'm concerned there is nothing wrong with laying a snooker on a freeball, as long as it is not behind the nominated freeball.

Please can someone , hopefully a qualified referee confirm this to me.

Cheers.

Hotshot...

[Billy]

Well I'm certainly no ref, but the rules are exactly as you describe, HotShot. Tell your opponents they're an arse

You cannot snooker behind the nominated free ball. Other than that snooker away. What you did was totally legal, I'm sure.

[Hotshot_147]

Thanks Billy i was 100% sure it was ok, nice if other people would comment too.

Thanks,

Hotshot...

[DawRef]

I'm guessing that you could not hit both sides of the yellow from all points in the 'D' (Section 2, rule 16(a)) to obtain the free ball.

However, it is not a foul, as the brown is the nearest ball to the cue-ball and is, therefore, 'the effective snookering ball' (Section 2, rule 16 b)(i)).
Had the green and brown been the other way round, then it would indeed have been a foul.

The only time you can roll up behind a free ball is when only pink and black remain
(Section 3, rule 10(b)(ii)).

[Hotshot_147]

Thanks DawRef, i new 100% in my own mind i was correct. Its so frustrating when other players dont know the rules. This one seemed so obvious to me, but not to my opponents.
They reluctently decided to play on after 10 minutes of heated discussion.

Cheers,

Hotshot...

P.S are you a qualified Snooker ref and if so what grade please.

[davidhawkes]

Brown is the snookering ball, so no foul stroke.

Why do people not study the rules?

Or if they are not sure, just pay respect to those that do know how to play, rather than getting into an argument which only wastes time?

[Hotshot_147]

Brown is the snookering ball, so no foul stroke.

Why do people not study the rules?

Or if they are not sure, just pay respect to those that do know how to play, rather than getting into an argument which only wastes time?

Yes thanks, its so annoying.

It spoilt and otherwise friendley match, we did shake hands but both me and my partner where not happy at all.

Hotshot...

[snooker mad]

I thought that if the ball you take as a free ball (in your case you took the green) then you snookered him behind the brown, which is fine, but as I read your post you say that the green landed just in front of the yellow and all 3 colours were roughly in line, did you mean that in order from white to yellow the balls went:- white, brown, green then yellow, if this is the case then its a foul stroke as the green which you took as a free ball is in line with the yellow between white and yellow. Or was the order:- white, brown, yellow, green?

[snooker mad]

If the free ball you took goes in between the white and the yellow its a foul stroke. The way I read your post the order of the balls went:- white, brown, green, yellow, which is a foul.

[Monsoon]

I am confused (not difficult). Same happened to me a few years back during a match which had a ref. Ref called a foul. I never argued though but asked later. Ref said "if nominated free ball is in line regardless how many balls are before it it is a foul" he went on to say the ref can remove those balls before the nominated free ball when determining if snookered by nominated ball if necessary.
The ref was not a pro ref though so am also interested in the "real" answer.

[The Statman]

I'm guessing that you could not hit both sides of the yellow from all points in the 'D' (Section 2, rule 16(a)) to obtain the free ball.

However, it is not a foul, as the brown is the nearest ball to the cue-ball and is, therefore, 'the effective snookering ball' (Section 2, rule 16 b)(i)).
Had the green and brown been the other way round, then it would indeed have been a foul.

The only time you can roll up behind a free ball is when only pink and black remain
(Section 3, rule 10(b)(ii)).

Just to add to DawRef's comments, he is spot on. We are both qualified referees and it is one of those rules that does catch people out.

You are not allowed to snooker behind the free ball.

Where more than one ball is between the cue-ball and the ball on, it is the one nearest the cue-ball which is considered to be the one you are snookered behind.

So, if you are on the yellow, choose green, and the balls end up like this:

○..●..●..●

That is not a foul because it is the brown that you are considered to have snookered him behind.

However, if you leave them like this:

○..●..●..●

Then that is a foul because you are considered to have snookered behind the green, which was your nominated free ball.

If more than one ball is equal distance from the cue-ball, such as here:

...●
..●●
.........○ (diagram does not quite show equal distance, but assume they are)

...then it is a foul whichever ball was nominated as a free ball, because both balls being equally closest to the cue-ball are considered to be the ones you are snookering behind.

When there is more than one red on the table, if they end like this:

●..●..○..●..●

...then it is no foul whichever ball had been nominated as a free ball, since no single ball is snookering on all reds.

[snooker mad]

Thanks for that :-)

[Monsoon]

I will have to get hold of the ref and tell him - cost me the Match!!

Thanks

[Hotshot_147]

Just to add to DawRef's comments, he is spot on. We are both qualified referees and it is one of those rules that does catch people out.

You are not allowed to snooker behind the free ball.

Where more than one ball is between the cue-ball and the ball on, it is the one nearest the cue-ball which is considered to be the one you are snookered behind.

So, if you are on the yellow, choose green, and the balls end up like this:

○..●..●..●

That is not a foul because it is the brown that you are considered to have snookered him behind.

However, if you leave them like this:

○..●..●..●

Then that is a foul because you are considered to have snookered behind the green, which was your nominated free ball.

If more than one ball is equal distance from the cue-ball, such as here:

...●
..●●
.........○ (diagram does not quite show equal distance, but assume they are)

...then it is a foul whichever ball was nominated as a free ball, because both balls being equally closest to the cue-ball are considered to be the ones you are snookering behind.

When there is more than one red on the table, if they end like this:

●..●..○..●..●

...then it is no foul whichever ball had been nominated as a free ball, since no single ball is snookering on all reds.

Thanks Statman, very good pictorial description of the freeball rule.

Now i need to send this link to my oponents so they are clear about it next time

Cheers,

Hotshot...

[The Statman]

You also need to remember that they need not be in an exactly straight line, for example:

........●
........●


....●
.........○

Here, at first glance (taking again the example of yellow on, green nominated) that the shot is fair, because the brown looks to be the only ball snookering the oncoming player on the yellow.

However, if the green does prevent a direct stroke at the extreme left-hand edge of the yellow, then the green is indeed also snookering the striker and, as it is the closest snookering ball to the cue-ball, the shot is foul.

In this diagram, it is marginal whether the green prevents a shot at the extreme left edge, but assuming that path is obstructed, then it's a foul.

There is an easy way to judge this at the table, and that is to place a red against the ball on and another against the potential snookering ball, as follows:

...●●
........●


....●●
.........○

I cannot in this format show them touching, but you can take it that I have left the two reds touching the yellow/green. They will also be slightly below the yellow and above the green as we look, to emulate the slightly non-vertical (in the diagram) route of the cue-ball.

You can then look down the approximately straight line linking white-red-red. If that line is off-straight with the first red superimposed partly on the yellow, then the green is indeed obstructing the path; if the line 'bends' the other way then the green is clear of the path. If the line is absolutely dead-straight then it is a foul, since the white cannot hit the extreme edge of the yellow without making contact with the green on the way.

Sorry if this complicated what had been a straightforward answer!