Question about rankings

[Guy]

What determines the ranking order of the new professionals when they come on to the main tour? Also, what determines the number of points the newbies start the season with?

cheers if you can help with the answer

[Templeton Peck]

Virgo and Thorne watch each player play for a while and decide how good they are, and that determines their new rank.

[Guy]

Thanks Face. I'm glad that's cleared up

[steveflanuk]

What determines the ranking order of the new professionals when they come on to the main tour? Also, what determines the number of points the newbies start the season with?

cheers if you can help with the answer

From World Snooker's guidelines:

Players who have joined The Tour commencing the 2008/2009 season will receive starter points equivalent to the 8th player qualifying from the 1 year list. Players on The Tour who have earned points in the 2007/2008 season will retain the points earned and will not be allocated any other points (even if they are less than the starter points allocated).

Basically, 8th place on the 1 year list is the bottom of the rung in terms of players who are on The Tour.

I would assume that this will remain in place for next season.

As regards breaking ties, the following procedure is used:

1. Tied players are ranked in accordance to the points earned in this season.
2. If still tied, points gained in events (working backwards from the latest World Championships) will determine the ranking.
3. However, if they are still tied, then players are ranked in accordance with the number of frames won in the final match they lost on tour, again working backwards from the latest World Championship.

If, somehow, it' still a tie after that - then I don't know.

[Guy]

So, for example, Geirgiou, and McBreen have 5938 points which is made up of points awarded at the start of the year and those they recieved rom tournament play this season (850). But they are seperated by the points they would have accrued on last seasons PIOS, or similar, in order to determine their order (94th and 95th respectively).

And Liu Chang who was the recipient of a wild card - meaning he didn't gain enough points to stay on the tour in his own right - keeps the points earned from last season which, by definition, is less than the 8th player who qualified from the 1 year list which is why he is below Lewis Roberts and Wayne Cooper despite earning more points on tour this season.

Right?

[Guy]

... and Liu Chang will face a challenge to stay on the tour after this season because of a) starting with less points than everyone else
b) not being able to benefit from the 8 places open to first year professionals who didn't secure sufficent ranking points throughout the season

[Rane]

And he lost the first three matches this season, so he´ll need a good run in the resting three tournaments. But basicly if you´re good enough to win your matches, then you stay on, but the existing system really protects the big names.

[The Statman]

And he lost the first three matches this season, so he´ll need a good run in the resting three tournaments. But basicly if you´re good enough to win your matches, then you stay on, but the existing system really protects the big names.

Yes it does, in that the top 16 get automatic qualification to the venue and, as long as they win their first match, they get full points for the second round onwards. (Similarly, the 17-32 are protected in comparison to the next lot down, and so on.) In a way, though, that's not the ranking system per se that protects those players, but the qualification system for events.

Having said all that, a player may well remain in the top-16 after a poor season having had a good one the season before; but equally, he may well drop out following a good season, if he had a disastrous one the previous year.

In the end I think it tends to even itself out. For example Mark Williams, who had a rotten season before last and remained in, was probably only being compensated for his opening seasons when he may well have been left out at the expense of a (then) current top-16 player who was on the slide but 'protected'.

(Actually, Mark Williams is not the best example because he joined the top-16 at no.16, but the principle applies.)

Graeme Dott could reach the semis or better in every remaining tournament and still be out of the top 16 next season because of the influence of last season. However, Marco Fu could fail to reach another quarter-final but still stay up on the basis of his good last season.