Snooker Refeering

[DandyA]

Would it be;

Yellow (Free ball) 1pt
Yellow 3pts
Red 4pts
Yellow 6pts
Yellow (when only the colours left) 8pts

brilliant alex! anyone got the answer to the billiards question?

[Sutcliffe]

Would it be;

Yellow (Free ball) 1pt
Yellow 3pts
Red 4pts
Yellow 6pts
Yellow (when only the colours left) 8pts

*******! I didn't even think of that.

Great answer - and blindingly obvious when presented!

[DandyA]

Snooker is played on an English Billiards Table. Apart from the balls, what is not used in snooker, but is used in Billiards?

been puzzling me for hours that one DawRef ... went to bed, tossing and turning, still trying to work it out ... and then suddenly I woke up and shouted "eureka!" ... or rather "cannons!" ...

cannons have no relevance in snooler but in biliards they do ... pots, plants and in-offs mean something in both games but cannons only mean something in billiards ...

am I right DawRef? ... please tell me I'm right or I'll never sleep again

[edit] ... great questions by the way DawRef - got any more?

[Sutcliffe]

been puzzling me for hours that one DawRef ... went to bed, tossing and turning, still trying to work it out ... and then suddenly I woke up and shouted "eureka!" ... or rather "cannons!" ...

cannons have no relevance in snooler but in biliards they do ... pots, plants and in-offs mean something in both games but cannons only mean something in billiards ...

am I right DawRef? ... please tell me I'm right or I'll never sleep again

[edit] ... great questions by the way DawRef - got any more?

Nah because i've seen players play a cannon in Snooker, so that can't be right!

[DawRef]

You are right with the '8 point' question. Free ball (yellow)1 pt, yellow as colour 2pts, final red 1pt, yellow as colour 2pts, and then yellow 2pts, as no reds left. Total 8pts.

Other question: answer is the baulk line. In billiards, when playing from 'in-hand', the strikers ball MUST cross the balk line. In snooker, you can play in any direction. Obviously in both games, the cue/strikers ball crosses the baulk line in the opening stroke.

The rule I was looking for is Section 5, Rule 1(a)(ii): 'The referee shall be free to make any decision in the interests of fair play for any situation not covered adequately by Rule.'

OK. Try this. After a foul stroke, the cue ball is in the jaws of a centre pocket, right on the edge of the pocket. The yellow is on the same cushion between the cue ball and the final red (all other balls are on their spots). Does the referee declare a 'free ball'?

[Sutcliffe]

You are right with the '8 point' question. Free ball (yellow)1 pt, yellow as colour 2pts, final red 1pt, yellow as colour 2pts, and then yellow 2pts, as no reds left. Total 8pts.

Other question: answer is the baulk line. In billiards, when playing from 'in-hand', the strikers ball MUST cross the balk line. In snooker, you can play in any direction. Obviously in both games, the cue/strikers ball crosses the baulk line in the opening stroke.

The rule I was looking for is Section 5, Rule 1(a)(ii): 'The referee shall be free to make any decision in the interests of fair play for any situation not covered adequately by Rule.'

OK. Try this. After a foul stroke, the cue ball is in the jaws of a centre pocket, right on the edge of the pocket. The yellow is on the same cushion between the cue ball and the final red (all other balls are on their spots). Does the referee declare a 'free ball'?

There is obviously some trick answer to this, but i'd have to say 'yes' - if the Red is the Ball on.

[DawRef]

Good job you are not being examined. Check Section 2, Rule 16 (e). I was asked this on my Grade 2 exam. Perhaps, in your derence, I should have made it a bit clearer that the cue-ball was against the curved face of the cushion. (This sort of question is best set up on a table, a bit difficult here).

[Sutcliffe]

Interesting - i've never seen that scenario in Snooker!

Any more?

And where can i get a copy of the rules?

Also, what sort of pay are we looking at if you're a Ref? Do you get expenses (like travel for instance) paid, or does that have to come out your own pocket?

[DawRef]

A copy of the latest rules can be found at: http://www.worldsnooker.com/rules_of_snooker.htm

For county matches, or our own league final, I only get paid a small fee. For the two internationals, I only got lodgings and meals paid for (I had to fund my own travelling). I'm not sure how much the top referees get paid. I don't think it is that much, as they share the ranking tournaments between them. Statman or John Street may be able to advise, or else contact World Snooker.

OK. Another scenario:

No one has noticed the final red tucked up on a cushion behind the pink and black. Player A pockets the Yellow, but misses the Green. Player B pockets the Green but misses the Brown. Player A pockets the Brown and then pockets the Blue. It is at this moment that the referee notices the final red.

i) Is it a foul?
ii) If it is a foul, what is the penalty?
iii) what would the call be by the referee? and,
iv) What ball, or balls, if any, are replaced?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As John Street's book is no longer available, I would recomend that you get a copy of the Sussex Referees Association, Referees Manual. You can get further details from:

Peter Phillips (Secretary)
12 Crabtree Avenue
BRIGHTON
BN1 8DE
01 273 561207

[Sutcliffe]

I would say this is the same as if the Ref forgets to respot a colour - basically, it's his fault.

I think the situation would be that the player at the table had to play on the final Red before potting the pink, and no foul penalties would be called against either.

Imagine Virgo's reaction to that!

I think i'll get a copy of that book - but i don't know how i'll get into the game. I'd love to though.

[DawRef]

Actually it is a foul. The penalty will be 5 points and the blue would be re-spotted. The order would then go, red, colour, blue, pink, black.

Here is why:

When the yellow was pocketeded, that was a foul, as there was still a red on the table. However that was condoned by the attempt on the green (Section 3, Rule 11 (c)). When the green was pocketed that too was a foul, but condoned by the attempt on the brown. When the brown was pocketed that too was a foul but condoned by the pocketing of the blue. The red is then noticed by the referee (or non striker) and the referee calls 'Foul. Penalty 5 points' (and probably 'free ball') and re spots the blue.

but i don't know how i'll get into the game. I'd love to though.

Don't you have a local club where you can play, or a league?

[Sutcliffe]

Actually it is a foul. The penalty will be 5 points and the blue would be re-spotted. The order would then go, red, colour, blue, pink, black.

Here is why:

When the yellow was pocketeded, that was a foul, as there was still a red on the table. However that was condoned by the attempt on the green (Section 3, Rule 11 (c)). When the green was pocketed that too was a foul, but condoned by the attempt on the brown. When the brown was pocketed that too was a foul but condoned by the pocketing of the blue. The red is then noticed by the referee (or non striker) and the referee calls 'Foul. Penalty 5 points' (and probably 'free ball') and re spots the blue.



Don't you have a local club where you can play, or a league?

The truth is, as much as i love the game, i'm not good enough for a league & don't have the time to practice to a great level. Plus my knowledge has been found wanting on here a bit! I never thought of some of these scenario's!

[The Statman]

Other question: answer is the baulk line. In billiards, when playing from 'in-hand', the strikers ball MUST cross the balk line. In snooker, you can play in any direction. Obviously in both games, the cue/strikers ball crosses the baulk line in the opening stroke.

Strictly speaking, the answer to "What is found on an English billiard table that has no relevance in snooker but is relevant in billiards" is a bit more precise than the answer "The baulk line"

Specifically, the answer is the baulk line outside of the 'D'. The part between the two corners of the D is very relevant in snooker, just as it is in billiards – but only for the reason of placing the cue-ball and not concerning direction of play.

However, the rest of the line, which is still relevant in billiards for direction of play, is there purely for decoration in snooker terms.

[abextra]

No one has noticed the final red tucked up on a cushion behind the pink and black. Player A pockets the Yellow, but misses the Green. Player B pockets the Green but misses the Brown. Player A pockets the Brown and then pockets the Blue. It is at this moment that the referee notices the final red.

i) Is it a foul?
ii) If it is a foul, what is the penalty?
iii) what would the call be by the referee? and,
iv) What ball, or balls, if any, are replaced?

Actually it is a foul. The penalty will be 5 points and the blue would be re-spotted. The order would then go, red, colour, blue, pink, black.

Here is why:

When the yellow was pocketeded, that was a foul, as there was still a red on the table. However that was condoned by the attempt on the green (Section 3, Rule 11 (c)). When the green was pocketed that too was a foul, but condoned by the attempt on the brown. When the brown was pocketed that too was a foul but condoned by the pocketing of the blue. The red is then noticed by the referee (or non striker) and the referee calls 'Foul. Penalty 5 points' (and probably 'free ball') and re spots the blue.

It seems very unfair to me!

What would happen if the striker would notice the final red after pocketing the blue and said it to the ref? Would he still be punished?

[The Statman]

Actually it is a foul. The penalty will be 5 points and the blue would be re-spotted. The order would then go, red, colour, blue, pink, black.

Here is why:

When the yellow was pocketeded, that was a foul, as there was still a red on the table. However that was condoned by the attempt on the green (Section 3, Rule 11 (c)). When the green was pocketed that too was a foul, but condoned by the attempt on the brown. When the brown was pocketed that too was a foul but condoned by the pocketing of the blue. The red is then noticed by the referee (or non striker) and the referee calls 'Foul. Penalty 5 points' (and probably 'free ball') and re spots the blue.

And probably a Miss as well, as it may well not have been judged a fair attempt to hit the red!