Three snooker situations....Do you know these answers?

[1lawyer]

1....Once in a local match I was going for a red hanging over middle pocket. I miss cued completly, missed the red all together hit the side cushion smashed the pack of reds open and finished on the black perfectly..very fluky
Meanwhile the red over the middle dropped in by itself. Ref called "one" and told me to carry on which I did...I made 96....but afterwards I thought this can't be right.....does anyone know?

2....Also I once found my white surownded by reds and it was impossible to push away without fouling, am i allowed to play a deliberate foul, if so how must you play it because I did not have a clue?

3....Once my mate was playing on a black ball game he played the black, wacked it one... lifted his cue up in an Alex Higgins snatch sort of way, hit the light shade which caused the trangle to fall on the table, the black came off three cushions hit the triangle and went in the bottom pocket....My mate jumped up shouted "Yes!" thinking he'd won the game but the ref called a foul and awarded it to the other player...I thought maybee the shot should have been replayed...who was right?

[tallguy]

1... The red over the middle pocket should have been put back on the table and it should been your opponents turn provided you hadn't potted any other red with your miscued shot.

2.... I don't understand this. Do you mean cue ball is surrounded by touching reds? If so, tough luck. You are "allowed" to deliberately foul. The ref will penalise you accordingly . If you are on a red, it would be a 4 point foul.

If you are on a colour you should play with sufficient strength such that had it not been for the reds in your way the cue ball would have reached the nominated colour. If you don't play with sufficient strength (which is the ref's call) a foul-and-miss will be called.

3... The ref was right.

I think these are the answers but you better wait for Statman's opinion.

[The Statman]

1....Once in a local match I was going for a red hanging over middle pocket. I miss cued completly, missed the red all together hit the side cushion smashed the pack of reds open and finished on the black perfectly..very fluky
Meanwhile the red over the middle dropped in by itself. Ref called "one" and told me to carry on which I did...I made 96....but afterwards I thought this can't be right.....does anyone know?

Yes. The red was, from your description, not involved in the shot - i.e. no ball hit it and no ball would have hit it if it hadn't dropped. In this case, the red should be replaced and you continue with your turn as if nothing had happened.

2....Also I once found my white surownded by reds and it was impossible to push away, am i allowed to play a deliberate foul, if so how must you play it because I did not have a clue?

I presume you had not just potted a red and on a colour? If you were on a red and touching reds on all sides, then the push shot is unavoidable but no Miss can be called because by definition you didn't miss the red.

If you were on a colour, and impossibly snookered, you must nominate a colour and play as if you were not impossibly snookered, i.e. in the direction and with sufficient strength that you would have hit that ball. A foul of course, but no Miss if you have done the above.

3....Once my mate was playing on a black ball game he played the black, wacked it one... lifted his cue up in an Alex Higgins snatch sort of way, hit the light shade which caused the trangle to fall on the table, the black came off three cushions hit the triangle and went in the bottom pocket....My mate jumped up shouted "Yes!" thinking he'd won the game but the ref called a foul and awarded it to the other player...I thought maybee the shot should have been replayed...who was right?

The shot should have been replayed under the 'Ball moved by other than striker' is one interpretation. It could be argued that, since it was the striker who caused the triangle to fall, then that is a foul just as if he had touched a moving ball himself, in which case of course that's a foul and in this scenario would lose the frame.

On balance, since the player himself caused the movement, I would agree with the referee. If it had been someone else who nudgegd the lampshade, the shot would be replaced and replayed.


PLEASE, never leave the triangle hanging on the lampshade – for this very reason!

[The Statman]

For number one...the ref said the vibration of my miscued white on the cushion had caused the red to fall in...before it smashed into the pack of reds and since my hand had touched the table...I had adressed the table. I always felt guilty, even though it was their ref that told me to carry on...so thanks for that, next time I see the guy in question I will buy him a pint and say sorry.

Yes it almost always is caused by some kind of vibration, but as long as it was not struck during the shot, it can just be replaced with no penalty and the game proceeds as if nothing has ever happened.

Number two...am i allowed to play full in the face push shot ...I am on a red..this is what i did, I was fouling no matter what...just tried to get a good white at the time.

If you were on a red, then all you can do is play towards a red, which was impossible to miss by the sound of it. The rules can only give you a foul, no Miss.

Number three...My mate did it by accident, he was not to know the triange was on the lampshade...Many people have given us three different answers to this one...I feel the shot should have been replayed...

I don't think I would have criticised the referee whether he had called foul or replaced the shot. But to allow the black to count is obviously wrong. But on balance I would go with the foul because he caused it to happen.

[1lawyer]

Just to clarify number 1...My 96 should not have been then and the ref was wrong to tell me to carry on then?

What you are saying is that all the balls including the reds I smashed everywhere should have been replaced to their orginal positions, the red that fell in should be replaced over the pocket and I should play the shot again?

[The Statman]

Just to clarify number 1...My 96 should not have been then and the ref was wrong to tell me to carry on then?

What you are saying is that all the balls including the reds I smashed everywhere should have been replaced to their orginal positions, the red that fell in should be replaced over the pocket and I should play the shot again?

No I'm not saying that. The break was perfectly good.

However, did the referee replace the red or did it just stay down without being scored for?

Assuming that the shot you played did not cause the red to move, AND the shot would not have hit the red after it had fallen, then the shot is fine, the red is just replaced and we carry on as if nothing happened.

If the red WOULD HAVE been hit by the shot, after it had fallen, THEN all the balls are replaced in their original position and the shot is played again.

[mushka]

Re 3) Who put the triangle on the light shade?

[mushka]

Re 3 I think the ref set the game up and placed the triangle on the light shade...this is common in some clubs to put it there.

Should have thought so, lol.

I was thinking that perhaps naming the responsible person might help in deciding whether to call foul or replace the balls.

[The Statman]

I will repeat...I got down to power the red in over the middle but miscued, the white missed the red altogether hit the cushion and smashed the pack of reds everywhere...the red over the middle fell in on its own accord without the white or any other ball touching it...the white finished perfect on the black the ref called "one"...and said I should carry on because I had addressed the table and he felt the vibration or whatever from the ball wizzing past had been enough for the ball to drop in. The other player protested but the ref told me to carry on and I went on to make a break of 96, but I allways felt guilty...he reminds me everytime I see him and we still dont know who was right.

Ah sorry.

I thought you had said that when the white went into the pack, another red also went in. In which case what I said above was right.

If the ONLY red to fall was the one that was not touched, then the referee should have replaced it and carry on as if nothing had happened - in which case your opponent would then have his turn because you did not pot.

Sorry to have misunderstood!

However, as soon as the referee had made his decision (even being a wrong one), once the next shot has been played it is too late to make any changes to the decision made. In that respect, your 96 break is perfectly ok and I imagine would stand, say, if it ended up being the highest in the competition and there was a prize.

But a break cannot start from a shot in which no ball was potted, and the red was not.