Foul

[tontaire]

Hi all,

I'm beginner in snooker, and I wonder what the difference bitween "foul" and "foul and a miss".

And When can I ask the player to play again from the position where he has done the foul?

Thanks

[Robert602]

Ah that's a more complicated question than it sounds. This miss rule is probably the most controversial rule in snooker. I'll do my best.

A 'foul' can be any old illegal shot, going in off, hitting the wrong ball (or nothing at all), pushing the white, potting a ball not on, etc, etc. A foul carries between a 4 and 7 point penalty depending on the highest value ball involved. After any foul, the other player can either continue as normal or choose to put the opponent in instead (from wherever the white has landed after the foul). A foul is fairly straightforward and clean cut, and is pretty well explained in the official rules. Unlike the miss...

A 'miss' is a particular penalty on top of a normal foul, which gives the other player an opportunity to ask for the balls to be replaced and the shot to be retaken. A miss can be called when a player fails to hit a legal ball (that's always a foul), and is deemed not to have made their best effort to hit it. It's a subjective rule, open to interpretation, but this is my take on it:

Consider a situation where a player is snookered behind a colour with two reds on the table. One of the reds is easier to hit, but the other offers a better possibility of leaving the situation safe. If the player goes for the easier red, makes a good effort, hits the white with plenty of pace but misses the red by a couple of inches, then a miss shouldn't be called. If they go for the harder red, concentrating just as much, and miss it by the slightest fraction, then a miss would always be called because it's not the easiest way to hit a legal ball, and so they haven't made their best effort.

Same situation if the player goes for the easier red, but perhaps off an extra cushion for safety reasons, or tries to roll up to it and falls just short. Basically, if anything is in their mind other than purely hitting the ball on at all costs, then a miss ought to be called should they fail to hit it.

Once a miss is called (by a referee, or usually by agreement between the players if there's no referee), then it's just an extra option for the other player. They get the points for the foul, and then they have three choices: Replace the balls and put the opponent back in, leave the balls as they are and put the opponent in, or leave the balls as they are and take the shot themselves.

And that's pretty much it. Hope I've clarified more than I've confused. My excuse is it's far too late to be writing anything coherently.

[beermonster]

you made it sound very clear mate,
i understod what you ment and i was unclear on that rule until now.

[reverse_side]

he's not bad is our Rob eh! ( this link's quite good: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/searc...searchid=11595 )

[Robert602]

One thing I should add for the sake of completeness (the edit function seems to be broken, sorry). A miss can only be called when neither player is at the snookers required stage, as a result of the shot just played or otherwise.

This is most important at the end of a frame, ie if you need two snookers and a clearance to win, you have to get both snookers seperately, you can't put the opponent back in after he's missed once.

I also meant to include a link to the official rules in my previous post. They're here.

[reverse_side]

Hope this has cleared it up for you tontaire; another difference in the two concerns the level at which you're playing.

The Foul&aMiss is normally for players of a higher standard; it was brought in to address Pro's using the rules for their own advantage so there may be an instance where you'll never hear the Ref say the phrase. In our League we don't play it, but when I take part in the County Team, then the Ref's always apply some part of it... two flavours I've experienced are that you're not allowed to miss the ball on if you can see one, all the way upto you've got to get out of a snooker or get it very close at least.#

One of my hobby-horses is that if you understand the rule as it stands, you can extract many penalty points by successives F&aM, but when you actually need the points to give you a chance to win a frame, you can only be called a foul and not have the balls replaced.... particularly annoying for the Pro's when they're desperate for foul points but their opponent is allowed to make a half hearted attempt without fear of being, "put back".

I wouldn't mind seeing the black Hendry had put back against Ronnie in their semi a few years back in the World Champs... caused a bit of controversy then.

Listen to Ron's "back to Scotland" comments

For more entries about the rule; click here

As for that link for Rob, maybe this one insteadthen! Not bad for just gone 2 in the morn tho!

[tontaire]

Thanks, i understand now.

Thanks a lot