A simple question

[csmarkus]

In the game of snooker, what does the referee say when the cue ball follows the last red into the pocket in a situation where all the colours but the brown are on their spots and the brown is touching the yellow in the direction towards the green?

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[Looki]

It's a foul and the opponent is given a free ball.

[magicman]

Foul 4, free ball as Looki says.

[Looki]

Foul 4, free ball as Looki says.

Except if the white hit the black first then the last red and followed it into the pocket..

FOUL 7!

Black magically rolled back to its own spot.

[csmarkus]

After these quick answers, are there any other ideas?

[The Statman]

If the brown is on the D-line, and very close to (or even touching) the yellow, I do not believe it would be a free ball.

The cue-ball could be placed on the circumference line, very close to the yellow, and finest edge each side of the yellow would be available with the brown being 'beyond' the yellow when aiming for the finest left-hand edge.

So the actual answer to the question "What would the referee say?" depends on other factors not outlined in the scenario.

He will say "Foul";

Then, if a colour had been hit first before striking the red and following it into the pocket, he might then say "and a Miss" (likewise if red was not the ball on)

Then he might say "Player A 12" if the offender was on a break before the foul occurred (could be any number other than 12 if the break was not actually 12, of course!)

Then he will say, "Player B 4" assuming no foul higher than 4 was applicable to the foul shot.

[csmarkus]

Exactly!

The point of this question was whether it was a free ball or not. And it's NOT a free ball, just like The Statman says. If you are still not convinced, look at the attached images (black is shown instead of brown).

[The Statman]

If you look at my Diagram No.3 (and the associated text) here you'll see this is covered, not quite so extreme as the ball on the corner of the "D" but almost.

It is worth noting that the yellow could actually be resting some distance outside the D, touching the brown where it is now, and still not be a free ball.

[RCMIGil]

If the brown is on the D-line, and very close to (or even touching) the yellow, I do not believe it would be a free ball.

The cue-ball could be placed on the circumference line, very close to the yellow, and finest edge each side of the yellow would be available with the brown being 'beyond' the yellow when aiming for the finest left-hand edge.

So I guess the question then becomes, with ball in hand in the D, what "leeway" does the player have in placing the cue ball relative to the ball on. Can you create a touching ball on yellow and play away from it? I'm off to scan the rulebook...

[Looki]

Ok then!

[The Statman]

So I guess the question then becomes, with ball in hand in the D, what "leeway" does the player have in placing the cue ball relative to the ball on. Can you create a touching ball on yellow and play away from it? I'm off to scan the rulebook...

No you can't. That would be touching a ball in play, just like touching the yellow with your sleeve.

It would come under the foul "touching any ball in play other than the cue-ball with the tip of the cue".

[RCMIGil]

No you can't. That would be touching a ball in play, just like touching the yellow with your sleeve.

It would come under the foul "touching any ball in play other than the cue-ball with the tip of the cue".

Aha, I see.
And Section 2, 16(a) covers the question of positioning within the D relative to the ball on quite explicitly.
Thanks guys, great way to learn the rules.

[Crusader]

If csmarkus had displayed a description such as the one displayed in post #7 instead of the primitive one in the original post, then this may have been answered more accurately earlier.

[The Statman]

If csmarkus had displayed a description such as the one displayed in post #7 instead of the primitive one in the original post, then this may have been answered more accurately earlier.

It may have been, but I suspect it may not.

A lot of people, even standing at the table when such a situation came up, would award a free ball without thinking about it.

[Crusader]

Agreed but I was just making the point of the unfairness of the initial post.