Ssb - maguire v burnett: Wpbsa statement

[wildJONESEYE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgQEIBUlMg4

Think there is a playlist around there somewhere as well.


Just checked these were all snookerfan92'.... who has been wiped out.

D'Oh.

thats why i couldnt see it then ....if you want to see the final black its on the bbc site with some harsh words from john parrott but whoever saw his qualifier against Michael White last month would have seen him missing shed loads of easier pots than that on the way to a 5-0 rout by young white.

[wildJONESEYE]

The piece of evidence that was new to me was that several online betting accounts were newly created shortly before thew match in question and then sums of money put on 10-3 to Maguire?!

9-3 mate ............

[jb134]

Whether they cheated or not, some of those shots were disgraceful for a professional. They should boot Burnett off the main tour and make him re-qualify. To draw an analogy, if he were driving a car he would be prosecuted for dangerous driving, banned for 12 months and forced to resit his test. I don't see why they can't have a similar procedure for players who play crap.

There would be some amount of footballers back at the training academy.

We can all miss, no matter what our level from top pro right down to rabbit, we all have days when even for our relative abiltiy we cannot believe what we are missing.

The worse we play the worse it gets and pressure makes it worse.

[noel]

Scots snooker pair released without charge by police in betting probe
Aug 27 2009

TWO Scots snooker stars have been released without charge after being detained by police probing irregular betting patterns during a UK championship match last year.

Stephen Maguire, 28, and Jamie Burnett, 33, were helping Strathclyde Police with their inquiries in connection with the outcome of the UK Championship match between the pair in Telford last December.

Both of the snooker players were later released without charge.


Good news.


=o)

Noel

[snooker66]

I hope they are both innocent, but two good friends and practice partners. 9-3 heavily backed off the boards (rare to have large amounts of money on a correct score) with much of the money in the Glasgow area. And then the way it happens. It really does stink, I really hope there is nothing too it though.

I work in the betting industry myself and the whistle was blown on this some time before the match. If there is nothing going on, there was a lot of coincidences. Hopefully that is the case. What I can confirm is that the betting patterns were highly unusual. It isn't unusual to have large bets on the outcome of matches, but bets (at least highly stakes ones) are more unusual on correct frame betting. The fact there were so many of these bets on the same scoreline (so much so that many firms pulled the betting some time before the match started) is a little concerning.

Having said that I still faith that nothing went on. I hope so.

[snooker66]

Another thing that crossed my mind was this...And I guess this could be perceived as bad too as in effect it would be match-fixing but....

If neither of them had anything to do with it and they were well aware of this speculation pre-match, wouldn't it have seemed sensible for Maguire to have allowed Burnett to win frame 12? It would have been highly unlikely that Burnett would have reeled off the next five frames. This is assuming no party involved wanted the 9-3 scoreline.

They will be cleared anyway I am sure, these things are very hard to prove. If people remember the incident with Nikolay Davydenko in Poland a year or two ago in the tennis,they will know what I mean! I am not even suggesting Davydenko was guilty, but something went on. That was a incident involving much much more money than this (millions of pounds) with most of the money originating in Moscow, Russia potentially with some sort of Mafia involvement.

[GOMH71]

Another thing that crossed my mind was this...And I guess this could be perceived as bad too as in effect it would be match-fixing but....

If neither of them had anything to do with it and they were well aware of this speculation pre-match, wouldn't it have seemed sensible for Maguire to have allowed Burnett to win frame 12? It would have been highly unlikely that Burnett would have reeled off the next five frames. This is assuming no party involved wanted the 9-3 scoreline.

They will be cleared anyway I am sure, these things are very hard to prove. If people remember the incident with Nikolay Davydenko in Poland a year or two ago in the tennis,they will know what I mean! I am not even suggesting Davydenko was guilty, but something went on. That was a incident involving much much more money than this (millions of pounds) with most of the money originating in Moscow, Russia potentially with some sort of Mafia involvement.

You say you work in the betting industry ? What do you do exactly ?

I ask because you exhibit an incredible amount of naivety ...

[snooker66]

In what way am I displaying naiviety? I am merely the bizarre amount of "coincidences" on the match in question. I am not for one moment saying I am convinced it is dodgy, but I certainly think it requires careful investigation.

The bookmaking fraternity will typically suspend a market if they feel they are taking an unusually amount of money on a one particular outcome which puts them at risk. While admitedly some will run scared from one large bet or series of smaller ones (which may well be innocent), it was reported widely amongst a whole bunch of different firms that unusaully large stakes were being placed on the match in question and in particular on a correct scoreline of 9-3.

It might not be unusual for a gamble to develop on just who was to win a match. Maybe for a reason emerging of an ill player, or someone has lost their cue or had it broken. This has happened many times before. Admittledly Maguire would have been very short for his encounter against Burnett around (1/10), but even so the sheer interest on the correct score market (bear in mind most firms pulled this market well before the match start time) sounds very dodgy to me indeed. It is pretty unusual for such a high volume of stakes to be on particular correct score in the frame betting.

The fact that the bulk of the money was placed from accounts in the Glasgow area on a match between two friends and practice partners is also pretty suspicious.

As for the job I work for SIS who serve the betting shops with their pictures and text information. We will sometimes get messages from bookmakers to warn shops via the text system not to take bets or limit stakes on a particular wager. I does not happen much but the Maguire v Burnett was one of these. The same happened with a football match between Bury v Accrington, and a Blue Square Premier game on the last day of last year (Forest Green if I remember rightly). It doesn't mean they are "bent matches" but there is widespread industry concern that "something is going on".

People can argue as long as they like that 9-3 was a likely scoreline (yes it was), but I would suggest it is others who are naive if you are prepared to just write it off as a coincidence and not at least investigate it. Of course I don't know the figures involved but the bookmakers must have been reasonably concerned to suspend the market on the correct score (much like they did on the White v Francisco match a few years ago) and we know what happened there.

I don't think anyone can look at this honestly and not think it at least deserves a in-depth investigation. If you believe otherwise I'd be intrigued to know why.

Jon.

[poolqjunkie]

Was there also considerable amount of bet on 9-4 and 9-2 or 9-5, or was almost all the bets only placed on 9-3?

[Monique]

Was there also considerable amount of bet on 9-4 and 9-2 or 9-5, or was almost all the bets only placed on 9-3?

Only on 9-3. New accounts, big amounts and focussed on just one score. That's what set the alarms ringing and why the bettings were "frozen" and the authorities in charge of monitoring the betting market did contact WPBSA days before the match.
For me the strongest point in favour of the players innocence is that they knew what was going on (all players knew), they knew the bettings were frozen, they knew the match would be recorded and analysed. Why carry on with it then? Burnett always claimed his "strange" behaviour and dodgy shot selection was caused by his extreme nervosity. Well put yourself in his shoes and you will see that's not at all impossible.

I don't know on what ground WPBSA decided to push the matters to the police for this match and not for the Liang-Ebdon match and now that case is close I accept they must have had good reasons for that. But if you look at the circumstances only you wonder. Here also there was massive betting on just one score lines and new accounts opened. Here also WPBSA was alerted before the match although the notice was shorter. The "suspect" score being a whitewash was easier to achieve by the loser alone, the match was a qualifier and happened in front of about nobody except the ref, it was not recorded for analysis neither ... so from the potential "cheater" perspective the risks were a lot lower.

Of course the match analysis is just one element of such enquiries and probably not even the more important one. Connections to where the betted money comes from and possible gains go to are far more significative. And such connections are usually very hard to find and prove when the whole set-up is done by specialists in financial crime and "money laundry". That's why I find some reactions regarding the time taken for the inquiry extremely naïve.

[matoski]

I would put some money on 9-3 for Maguire. It,s not a surprising result having in mind the form of the two players.
The betting companies are sometimes very paranoic i must say. As an example, two seasons ago some guy puts a lot of money on Zulte Waregem match. The odds were 1.6 to 1 for Zulte Waregem to win the match. The rumour has been spread among all betting companies in Skopje that the match was fixed, and the match was banned from further betting. Eventualy, the match ended 1-1. All that paranoya for nothing.

[snooker66]

Was there also considerable amount of bet on 9-4 and 9-2 or 9-5, or was almost all the bets only placed on 9-3?

Only 9-3. Tons of money, a lot from newly formed accounts with IP addresses in the Glasgow area on a specific score between two friends and practice partners. It then finishes 9-3 in strange looking circumstances.

[snooker66]

I would put some money on 9-3 for Maguire. It,s not a surprising result having in mind the form of the two players.
The betting companies are sometimes very paranoic i must say. As an example, two seasons ago some guy puts a lot of money on Zulte Waregem match. The odds were 1.6 to 1 for Zulte Waregem to win the match. The rumour has been spread among all betting companies in Skopje that the match was fixed, and the match was banned from further betting. Eventualy, the match ended 1-1. All that paranoya for nothing.

You are correct, very often these "dodgy" gambles turn out to be anything but. However they are far more easily explained when it a bet on an outright market such as your example. And these are more easily explained in individual sports, confidence could grow that a player is ill, has had his cue broken, has split up with his wife or whatever and a gamble develop on his opponent.

What is most unusual about this is that it targeted one specific score. If there was just general confidence why not back Maguire on the match handicap (-3.5 frames or so) or cover some other close scorelines. It all stinks to me :-(

[wildJONESEYE]

but if they knew about it before the match players included...and it finished 9-3..

would it be ok if maguire threw 1 frame away to stop all this talk ?

or they played it legit and it just happened to finish 9-3..

[snooker66]

but if they knew about it before the match players included...and it finished 9-3..

would it be ok if maguire threw 1 frame away to stop all this talk ?

or they played it legit and it just happened to finish 9-3..

I take your point it would not be good for Maguire to throw a frame away either. And that will be their argument I suppose. If they hadn't done anything it would have been the way to clear both their names though, assuming that is what they wanted to happen. Remember by this stage all the bets were on.