Ssb - stephen lee arrested in match fixing probe

[ore]

Nobody seems to have mentioned that Lee was linked with corruption before with the police having investigated him over drug dealing allegations a couple of years ago. In an interview earlier this year he talked about staying out of trouble, which I thought at the time may have some links with the above matter. Another thing that stands out is Mordechai Richler singling him out as an unlikable character in his bok 'On Snooker'.

Well nearly every article about match fixing at the end also mentioned some drug issues around year 2000.

Do you imply once a criminal - always a criminal?

[Augustus Gloop]

It's a product of what happens when there are only 6 tournaments in a year and a players gets more money for losing one match than they would for winning 3 or 4.

Not saying Stephen is guilty or not, but if your livlihood isn't paying you to the level you've become accustomed to then cheating can get more and more attractive, especially if you have a family to support.

The only problem with your post is that the game is struggling as a consequence of possible "fixed matches" and by engaging in more of these suspicious games the sport slips further and further into the gutter.
If found guilty, anyone engaging in rigged matches should be banned for the good of the sport.

[wildJONESEYE]

He has not been charged with any offence and is expected to answer bail in three to four months.
(from here)

As I have no clue about UK law system, can someone please explain what it means? Is he still a suspect? Was he cleared of accusations and why he is on a bail? (or is it just an innacurate reporting?).
I'm a bit lost here.

don't worry judges and lawyers in Britain are clueless about law.

[jamesa54321]

The only problem with your post is that the game is struggling as a consequence of possible "fixed matches" and by engaging in more of these suspicious games the sport slips further and further into the gutter.
If found guilty, anyone engaging in rigged matches should be banned for the good of the sport.

The other problem with your post is it implies if your chosen profession isn't paying it's justifiable to turn to crime.

Normal people would get another job to support their family

[wildJONESEYE]

The other problem with your post is it implies if your chosen profession isn't paying it's justifiable to turn to crime.

Normal people would get another job to support their family

spot on.

get a window cleaning job in winter see how they manage if snooker doesn't suit you.

[gmg]

Well nearly every article about match fixing at the end also mentioned some drug issues around year 2000.

Do you imply once a criminal - always a criminal?

I am not referring to the positive cannabis test but another story from 2006 when he was arrested on suspicion of supplying drugs. The story can be found on this thread:

http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...ead.php?t=6971

There has been far too much smoke without fire in Lee's case. His cannabis use reveals a pro criminal attitude and the allegations of drug dealing and match fixing have common motives, namely a man desperate to make money regardless of the means.

[Shawlands]

I am not referring to the positive cannabis test but another story from 2006 when he was arrested on suspicion of supplying drugs. The story can be found on this thread:

http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...ead.php?t=6971

There has been far too much smoke without fire in Lee's case. His cannabis use reveals a pro criminal attitude and the allegations of drug dealing and match fixing have common motives, namely a man desperate to make money regardless of the means.

For goodness sake, cannabis use 10 year ago does not relate to corruption in anybody. Allegations of drug dealing are that - allegations, completely unproven.

Innocent until proven guilty, I believe.

[gmg]

For goodness sake, cannabis use 10 year ago does not relate to corruption in anybody. Allegations of drug dealing are that - allegations, completely unproven.

Innocent until proven guilty, I believe.

Wish I had as much faith in the criminal justice system!

I'm fully aware that cannabis use is rife in society but my point is that it demonstartes that Lee is not immune to breaking the rules of snooker. How many other players will have refused drugs simply on the basis that they are breaking the rules of a game which is renowned for its sense of fair play and honesty. And where does someone stop once they've broken the rules once?

[Ekphantos]

"Pro-criminal attitude" becaue he smoked pot? Britain (and most other countries) must be quite unsafe then with its millions of users...
I don't think it has anything to do with fair play, he certainly didn't smoke it to gain an advantage on the table.

No one has answered darrus question yet, I am also curious, what does "is expected to answer bail in three to four months" exactly mean?

[spike]

I am also curious, what does "is expected to answer bail in three to four months" exactly mean?

Bail is paid to the court to make sure you appear at all court appearances. So when you are released on bail, you will be called back to court. To answer bail, is to show up as asked..

[snooky147]

Bail is paid to the court to make sure you appear at all court appearances. So when you are released on bail, you will be called back to court. To answer bail, is to show up as asked..

Not exactly correct Spike . He will have been released without charge on Police Bail with a date to appear back for either more questions or to be charged. This can happen as often as the Police like so expect this to take a while, as in the Maguire/Burnett case, which I think is still ongoing.

[Neil Taperell]

What about the comments of Ken Doherty.....'There were no rumours surrounding him! ' .

I find these comments a little unnerving , it's as if it's common knowledge that there are others at it , so to speak . I do hope that Ken's comments were taken out of context and they do not relate to other players .

[snookerpoolman]

Correct me if I am wrong. There were several match fixing incidents in the 80's when the game was at its peak, Silvino Fransico???

Silvino's nephew, Peter Fransico lost 10 - 2 to Jimmy at the World Champs, got caught for match fixing and received a 5 year ban, that ultimately mean't he couldn't come back through the rankings. I've got the match on video, but will probably never watch it again as it's so painfully obvious, that after the 2 frames Fransisco gets (presumably to meet the requirements of his betting friends) he just in't trying despite Jimmy's best efforts to hand him several frames on a plate. (one frame I remember ended up a black ball finish, and any half- decent amateur would have won that frame)

Following this match the WPBSA mounted a thorough investigation, Jimmy was totally exhonorated, Fransisco banned from playing.

I don't condone any of this sort of thing. It gives our fantastic game a bad name and lowers it to the level of Football and Horse Racing.

I hope Lee is innocent and gets a fair hearing. As has been stated, the cannabis thing is a red herring, dont let that colour your opinions as smoking weed doesn't help you clear up on a snooker table.

If he's proven to be guilty, then throw him out with Quinten Hann et al.

Quinten Hann: "If I practised, I'd be the best player in the world"
Ronnie O'Sullivan: "I dont practise and I am the best player in the world!"

[magicman]

I'm fully aware that cannabis use is rife in society but my point is that it demonstartes that Lee is not immune to breaking the rules of snooker. How many other players will have refused drugs simply on the basis that they are breaking the rules of a game which is renowned for its sense of fair play and honesty. And where does someone stop once they've broken the rules once?

I think you'll find that Ronnie O Sullivan was stripped of ranking points and prize money for using cannabis. He gave it up a long time ago and he no longer smokes, but are you in all seriousness suggesting that if someone breaks a rule once that's it, we should put them up against a wall and shoot them? Once a law breaker always a law breaker? Anyone who's ever partaken of a joint knows there's no advantage to be gained by it's use, so to intimate that using hash somehow impacts upon your 'fair play' and 'honesty' is a stretch too far imo. Professionals have regular drug tests which is how Ronnie got caught. Stephen has not had a positive test as far as I'm aware. The article you refer to about Stephen Lee was about 'police allegations' that were dropped. Considering all the other stories that have surrounded Ronnie in bringing the game into disrepute, is your unforgiving attitude equally aimed at Ronnie as at Stephen?

Match fixing cannot be condoned in any way shape or form and if convicted then an appropriate punishment must be given. The 'no smoke without fire' argument can be countered with an equally apt 'sling enough mud and some of it sticks' because 'quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur' - what can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason.

[JanieWatkins]

I think you'll find that Ronnie O Sullivan was stripped of ranking points and prize money for using cannabis. He gave it up a long time ago and he no longer smokes, but are you in all seriousness suggesting that if someone breaks a rule once that's it, we should put them up against a wall and shoot them? Once a law breaker always a law breaker? Anyone who's ever partaken of a joint knows there's no advantage to be gained by it's use, so to intimate that using hash somehow impacts upon your 'fair play' and 'honesty' is a stretch too far imo. Professionals have regular drug tests which is how Ronnie got caught. Stephen has not had a positive test as far as I'm aware. The article you refer to about Stephen Lee was about 'police allegations' that were dropped. Considering all the other stories that have surrounded Ronnie in bringing the game into disrepute, is your unforgiving attitude equally aimed at Ronnie as at Stephen?

Match fixing cannot be condoned in any way shape or form and if convicted then an appropriate punishment must be given. The 'no smoke without fire' argument can be countered with an equally apt 'sling enough mud and some of it sticks' because 'quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur' - what can be asserted without reason, can be dismissed without reason.

Ronnie got stripped of the Irish Masters title

Lee tested positive for cannabis back in around 2000.

But I really don't think cannabis use marks you out as a criminal. It is an offence in the UK, but in many other countries it's perfectly legal.
For all we know Lee used his cannabis legally overseas but it was still in his system when he tested positive.
Has no one ever been to Holland!!
My aged memory fails me a bit but if I do remember right Chris Scanlon was another who tested positive at one time. But he actually moved to live and play in Holland where it was perfectly legal so it wasn't a criminal offence even it was a disciplinary matter for banned substance list.