Ssb - lee doyle resigns from wpbsa board

[147snookerman]

Still waiting on an official press release from World Snooker on this but don't hold your breath for a indepth analysts about how this is going to effect the running of anything which 110Sport have been commanded to do in the past, remember the board may have changed but the monkeys that turn the wheels are still the same.

see this link ...

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport...252-26231531/?

cheers

[StevieB13147]

Thanks

Thanks for the link SM
I'm sure there will be lots of mileage in the politics right up to the 5th of May.

Probably would be best if we all took a back seat and left those with the voting power to make their own choices without all the speculation and gossip to contend with.

[goldengirl]

"Probably would be best if we all took a back seat and left those with the voting power to make their own choices without all the speculation and gossip to contend with."

Ah therein lies the problem! As a parent who's talented sons' dream is to become World Champion and who, like a great many others, has spent many thousands of pounds on snooker thus far - I feel it only right that we can use a medium such as this to try and make the players realise it is not just themselves they have to think about - but the entire future of the sport!! And they should act responsibly and intelligently when deciding THEIR vote!!

[ferret]

Probably would be best if we all took a back seat and left those with the voting power to make their own choices without all the speculation and gossip to contend with.

Sorry but I disagree with that totally, if we leave it to the voting members then we are as stupid as them, most of the players who have a vote will go with what their friend is going to vote for, we need to show all the members the facts from all possible angels.

I know alot of the players that changed their minds at the last meeting just because of the work TSF put it to get all the facts, we were the only form of media to interview Barry Hearn before the last vote, so no we will not sit back this is our game too.

You are correct about the speculation and gossips especially on here but all you have to do is look at the usernames as it is the same old people time and time again, just ignore them.

[StevieB13147]

No argument looked for

From your post I would guess that you are Stephen and Sam Craigie's Mum?
If not sorry for the wrong call.

I only meant that we should all allow the big grown up and intelligent Professional Snooker players to use their own minds and initiatives to vote as they see fit.
It is their expertise at that game the has taken them to the higher echelons of the game thus meriting a vote.
The problem with this process is that all and sundry feel they should have a say in the game and how the vote should go, when it is a closed shop re: the voting process, then all I meant was that we should all just sit and watch, because none of us has the right to think our thoughts should be the way the vote should go.

In all my years involved in playing and helping run Amateur Snooker, the biggest problem I ever encountered in the game was parents of kids who thought for whatever rerason that their children would be the next best thing.
Please dont anyone take any offence at this statement (especially yourself GoldenGirl), it is not meant as a dig or jibe at anyone (we all love our kids and wish only the best for them, anything other than that would be strange) but as Barry Hearn says "mediocrity is not going to be rewarded".

I think we should ALL channel our time, thoughts and energy into helping those kids with talent to fulfill their potential as far as it can be helped.
However, very few people around Snooker have a real measure of what it really takes to become a Hendry, Higgins, O'Sullivan etc.
It may well be easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven or for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than to become a long term professional Snooker player!
One thing I know is that it takes a lot more than hope or wishes.

It seems simple enough that if you wish to have a vote on the issues of WPBSA then make sure that you are good enough to become a Professional WSA Player and use your gained vote as you see fit.

The rest of us will just need to continue to dream.

Good Luck to ALL.

[goldengirl]

Steve
Firstly I am not Mrs Craigie who, God help her, has two talented snooker players.
My point is that for too long the voting system has been wrong , in my view, with "proxy" votes and players have not considered AGMs and votes important enough to attend even though it is their livliehood at stake.
We ran the International Golden Waistcoat Tour for a few years when we realised that England did not have a proper ranking structure and the criteria to play for England was "iffy" to say the least. We like to think that the GW helped establish proper ranking events in England with the EASB, Pontins and WSA following the format for some Tournaments.
I will admit SOME parents are a problem, but in my experience as long as everything is done in the open and there is a level playing field most accept the results. In my experience it was always the "grey suits" who would not change anything because "we've always done it that way" who caused the most problems.
Players in the top tier MUST realise it is not just themselves they must think of - with snooker clubs closing by the day and youngsters finding other pastimes - if they want competition in the years to come they ought to think long and hard about their vote not leave it to someone else to decide.
I know my son is talented and I hope he makes it to the top - but we all know how hard that is - but all we ask is for more opportunities to have a go at it.
I feel sorry for the new players on the MT 2009/10 - how many events did they have to showcase their talents and earn points - I don't think they had a cat in hells chance - and it cost them a fortune - paid for by parents no doubt in many cases!!
As to your point regarding the top players have earned their vote - well all I can say is they should be made to use it!!

[StevieB13147]

Sorry but I disagree with that totally, if we leave it to the voting members then we are as stupid as them, most of the players who have a vote will go with what their friend is going to vote for, we need to show all the members the facts from all possible angels.

I know alot of the players that changed their minds at the last meeting just because of the work TSF put it to get all the facts, we were the only form of media to interview Barry Hearn before the last vote, so no we will not sit back this is our game too.

You are correct about the speculation and gossips especially on here but all you have to do is look at the usernames as it is the same old people time and time again, just ignore them.

Hi Ferret,
I respect your views on disagreeing with my post.
All comendable points from yourself.
Yes information is king for all, especially when ignorance of the facts would be a dangerous thing at present.

Although the caveat of that would be IF the information was impartial and unbiased.

Your comment reads that the players are stupid, and that they will go with their friends on that point.
That is not really a satement that would lend me to think "unbiased" and "impartial".
That reads more of arrogance - although I can understand that it may be bourne out of frustration.

As I said before - All of us who are not good enough to be a professional player will have to accept that we have no vote on the 5th of May.
Our only worthy contribution would be to offer unbiased and truthful information (not speculation) to those with the vote before them.

Although, given how passionate many of us are about the game - that may prove to be easier said than done.

[jb134]

Some very good points GG, mostly the one about the future of the game. The top players should be using their vote and should be thinking for themselves.

However given that many "top" players are more or less skint or with little profits from the game making travelling to an AGM difficult, how would you suggest they register their vote without proxies?

I know in an ideal world everyone would care enough to attend and try to improve matters but in reality that is not the case, neither is it practical.

The argument that the main tour players have "earned their vote" is an interesting one. They have earned it by doing nothing more than bring good at snooker, that does not necessarily qualify them to improve it or even mean the hold or have formed any opinions about the way things are run.

I understand that that is the way of democracy within any organisation but when you look at the way Mr Hearn has achieved success in so many things all the time standing or falling by his own decisions, I see no reason not to give his strategy a try.

I can't remember the last time anything innovative was done in snooker. Traditionalists have their place, on balance, I am one, but so are dry stone dyke builders and Clyde shipworkers.

Time moves on.

[ferret]

I think the point I am trying to get over is that most of the players simply do not have the time to know all of the facts, Snooker politics is complex to the point that you could quite easily spend hours everyday just keeping up with what is happening and some time players need to be shown what is happening in a condensed format to understand fully what is happening with Snooker, it is easier to lead from a friends point of view than to have your own at times.

If we can show them all the facts then we are helping them to help us.

As for being unbiased, I have my views like everybody else but no matter what my views are I do try my hardest to get all parties involved, for example I have just sent a email to Barry Hearn, Pat Mooney, Brandon Parker and Steve Davis asking for a Q&A with the board for TSF and WPBSA members, just after I sent that email out I also sent a email to Lee Doyle asking for the same with him.

[StevieB13147]

Steve
Firstly I am not Mrs Craigie who, God help her, has two talented snooker players.
My point is that for too long the voting system has been wrong , in my view, with "proxy" votes and players have not considered AGMs and votes important enough to attend even though it is their livliehood at stake.
We ran the International Golden Waistcoat Tour for a few years when we realised that England did not have a proper ranking structure and the criteria to play for England was "iffy" to say the least. We like to think that the GW helped establish proper ranking events in England with the EASB, Pontins and WSA following the format for some Tournaments.
I will admit SOME parents are a problem, but in my experience as long as everything is done in the open and there is a level playing field most accept the results. In my experience it was always the "grey suits" who would not change anything because "we've always done it that way" who caused the most problems.
Players in the top tier MUST realise it is not just themselves they must think of - with snooker clubs closing by the day and youngsters finding other pastimes - if they want competition in the years to come they ought to think long and hard about their vote not leave it to someone else to decide.
I know my son is talented and I hope he makes it to the top - but we all know how hard that is - but all we ask is for more opportunities to have a go at it.
I feel sorry for the new players on the MT 2009/10 - how many events did they have to showcase their talents and earn points - I don't think they had a cat in hells chance - and it cost them a fortune - paid for by parents no doubt in many cases!!
As to your point regarding the top players have earned their vote - well all I can say is they should be made to use it!!

Goldengirl,
There is very little in your post that I could personally disagree with, all well thought out and presented points from experience.

I think it was you that made one particular point that I liked. Where players would be docked ranking points if they did not vote (although "Abstain" would also require to be on the voting sheet as well!). That may well see a full return of votes.
However, you would then then have a backlash from human rights activists stating how wrong it is to force such an issue.

I would imagine our very own government would like to see a 100% voting turnout at the polls come election time. If you need clarity on the importance of that vote, then you only need to look at WWI, WWII and Women Right campaigns to see what people have really given for the power of democratic voting - and still the turnout at election times is usually a disgrace.
6 months later, workplaces, social and sporting gatherings are awash with folk (of which a large majority chose not to vote for whatever reason) strongly opinioning and debating all that is wrong with whoever is running the country!

Now if that is real-life, very important, country wide politics that touches on all our life's then what chance really do you have of hoping that all players will use their vote in line with your own thoughts?

It's a fact of life, Snooker or Political, that people will raise their concerns AFTER not using their vote/voice.

Sorry to be the pessimist, but that is the reality of the situation.

Although, I will always remain an optimistic dreamer like yourself as to how much better all things could be if those with the voting power took a genuine interest BEFORE IT's TOO LATE.

PS Good Luck to Your Son and yourself.

[StevieB13147]

Ferret & JB

I also think that BH should be given the opportunity.
With regard to the last 15 years or so of Snooker Governance, I think the opportunity will be given and that it will be interesting to see the outcome.

At what cost?
This may well be seen, or become disproven fears of those offering comment presently.
Still be interesting though!

[1lawyer]

I ain't bias, personally I think all promotional snooker agents/managers that take a big percentage of earnings from players are blood sucking leeches. (Granted some do a better job than others)

But whichever promoters/managers can create more events and get more snooker back on TV and on the back page of the tabloids again will be the ones who help get kids back playing the game in their local clubs. For me that person in the best position to do that is Barry Hearn. Unless anyone has any better ideas?

Vote Goldengirl for board. :snooker:

[jb134]

But whichever promoters/managers can create more events and get more snooker back on TV and on the back page of the tabloids again will be the ones who help get kids back playing the game in their local clubs. For me that person in the best position to do that is Barry Hearn. Unless anyone has any better ideas?

Vote Goldengirl for board. :snooker:

I agree with that. The way a manager sells himself to a player is that they can generate more money for that player, at the moment who can generate more money for all the players than BH?

If they were out there we'd know them by now!

[carl1]

i have to say im deeply disappointed with the whole matter - for me this makes hearns proposals unlikely - 110 have 17 players - couple that with ebdon , davis - there were already many nos against hearn in the first place and i feel this will get rejected. Personally i am furious when are we as fans and even the players themselves going to be put first over stupid fat cat businessmen - i just want to see more snooker - players just want top play more snooker - snooker players must be idiots - absolute idiots - laughing tock if this gets rejected - i love the sport too much ever to walk away but there may not be a sport the way things are going

[StevieB13147]

Carl

As long as there are real Snooker lovers such as yourself, there will always be a sport.
The problem lies in what form or fashion it will take.

Business men being involved in sport is not synonymous with snooker only, you only need to look at Soccer, Basketball, American Football, Hockey, F1 or Darts! to see that the glamour and fame are moth to the flame attractions for the wealthy.
Although, not all are only in it for lining their own pockets, some have found to their cost that the love of their team or club can be a very costly exercise.

I think apathy and ignorance is the biggest problem with some of the players, always has been in the past. Hopefully, they will vote en masse come the 5th of May and then they can get on with supporting whatever decisions are taken at their meeting.

Snooker lovers should get back to playing at their own level and focus more on trying to get to the pro ranks to the potential problems and frustrations rather than wasting our time pontificating the rights and wrongs of something that we have no influence on (apart from as an audience).

Whatever way it goes, here's hoping that it is for the betterment of the game, that way we all have a chance of enjoying the spills that will no doubt cascade down from above - If they get it right!