Ssb - judd trump: World no.1

[hotpot]

Not sure if you recorded and analyzed the long potting of players in the mid to late 90's,I doubt the bbc gang have and they get paid for it.

And the pockets .

[wildJONESEYE]

Spot on , but would Stephen Hendry be world champion if he were competing against this opposition .

yes easy .................

[wildJONESEYE]

Hendry at his peak would have wiped the floor with any of the current pro's he was different class. His record specks for itself and even now his is still a dangerous player. I for one do not like the current system as I believe it robbed us of watching hendry, he had a few more years left in him in IMO

i wouldnt want to watch hendry turn up miss easy shots and lose to a nobody.

im glad he has retired as he did Last tournament made a max and last ever win as a Pro defeated the current World Champion at the crucible.....i wouldn't want hendry to retire in a cubicle somewhere against a kid.

[arbitrage]

Spot on , but would Stephen Hendry be world champion if he were competing against this opposition .

not a chance.

[sberry]

not a chance.

Haha - Seven world titles with players like Davis, White and O'Sullivan to deal with, but also almost 800 centuries, 11 maximums and outstanding tactical and safety games in a rock solid match temperament - he'd have made mincemeat out of today's lot.

But everyone has their day and he's had his, just that his lasted a decade.

[cueman]

Its different eras and comparisons are difficult to make. Hendry was ruthless as a break builder largely because nobody else was as proficient in that department as him. He changed the game to an attacking one and players just were scared to play him. Much like Davis took the safety game to another level during his domination, players had no answer to it, he also had good scoring power too but not at the level of Hendry who he was also frightened of.

It was easy for these players because they took the game to another level at a time when nobody else could, hence their records in the WC and ranking titles between them. They had an easy start to their careers and won a lot by the time they were mid 20's. Today nobody gets an easy start in the game.

Now I think Trump is taking this game to another level again. His cue power and potting accuracy has never been witnessed before, some say he relies too much on luck and maybe there is an element of truth to that but then again so did Hendry because he was always quick to get the reds open and more often than not they landed perfectly for him to score another ton.

The difference between Hendry and Trump is, Trump is doing it against better quality opposition. How anyone can deny that is living in the past, Hendry came on the scene in 1986 and got into the top 16 in 1988 when the top 16 were the likes of Davis, White, Foulds, Griffiths, Knowles, Francisco (both), Hallett, even Cliff Wilson! Many of these players had never even had a competitive break in the 140's let alone 147's back then and weren't really capable of clearing up frame after frame, not to mention the fact that they hardly won a much in the game.

Now compare that to the rankings of today, the majority of players have had competitive maximums, won multiple titles and are generally head and shoulders above any player in the 80's. Even players in the amatuer ranks I'd say some are better than many of the top 32 in the 80's.

[cazmac1]

I like trump and he is good for snooker with almost all other players apart from Ronnie being very samey. That said trump is no way in the class of jimmy or let alone hendry and unfortunately he will be a flash in the pan. His game is already at it's peak and it is only his youth and vitality that allows him to play the ball as hard and accurate as he does. As he ages his accuracy will decrease and as he relies on this so much due to how hard he hit's the ball his game will rapidly decline. This is only my opinion of course, but I think he'll be a spent force by his mid early 30's.
Just like to add that alot is made of lack of opposition in davies and hendry era although the level to day seems higher on average there is still a lot of crap out there and of course you have to factor in that the playing condition's have made it easier.
If anyone can seriously tell me that for example that Robertson is in hendrys class I would laugh them out of the room.

[billabong]

Its different eras and comparisons are difficult to make. Hendry was ruthless as a break builder largely because nobody else was as proficient in that department as him. He changed the game to an attacking one and players just were scared to play him. Much like Davis took the safety game to another level during his domination, players had no answer to it, he also had good scoring power too but not at the level of Hendry who he was also frightened of.

It was easy for these players because they took the game to another level at a time when nobody else could, hence their records in the WC and ranking titles between them. They had an easy start to their careers and won a lot by the time they were mid 20's. Today nobody gets an easy start in the game.

Now I think Trump is taking this game to another level again. His cue power and potting accuracy has never been witnessed before, some say he relies too much on luck and maybe there is an element of truth to that but then again so did Hendry because he was always quick to get the reds open and more often than not they landed perfectly for him to score another ton.

The difference between Hendry and Trump is, Trump is doing it against better quality opposition. How anyone can deny that is living in the past, Hendry came on the scene in 1986 and got into the top 16 in 1988 when the top 16 were the likes of Davis, White, Foulds, Griffiths, Knowles, Francisco (both), Hallett, even Cliff Wilson! Many of these players had never even had a competitive break in the 140's let alone 147's back then and weren't really capable of clearing up frame after frame, not to mention the fact that they hardly won a much in the game.

Now compare that to the rankings of today, the majority of players have had competitive maximums, won multiple titles and are generally head and shoulders above any player in the 80's. Even players in the amatuer ranks I'd say some are better than many of the top 32 in the 80's.

Oh dear . ok I'll bite , but I'm normally against such highjacking of a thread.

Just go away and do some homework.

Hendry never even won a world championship inthe 80's.

Have a look at the years he DID win

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...oker_champions

Then have a look at the top 16 for each year here :-

http://www.snooker.org/Rnk/9697/rk_9697.shtml

and then perhaps you could explain your line of thought in a bit more detail .

Unless your just at the wind up of course, in which case, could you use a barbless hook next time ? It's a pain trying
to get this one out . . . .

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[cueman]

No wind up and I don't need to do any homework, we could do without the patronising chat too, members like you never engage in debate, you merely think your opinion is correct and everyone else is an idiot.

Firstly did I claim that Hendry won a world title in the 80's?

I'm fully aware of the players around when he did win his world titles, they still aren't as strong as they have been over the past decade, the strength in depth is much stronger now than when Hendry won any of his titles, period! Remind me again how old Hendry was when he won his last world title. Now remind me how old John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were when they won their last world titles, that tells you quite a bit about why Hendry won his when he did!

I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone, who the hell do you think you are! I've given my thoughts and am fully entitled to them. However I don't ever take offence or attack a post because I don't agree with it, that is how debate works, you have an opinion, I have an opinion. No need for the sarcastic or patronising comments that you have displayed. How about you go away and learn some manners and respect for members who've been about a lot longer than you.

[Odrl]

Remind me again how old Hendry was when he won his last world title. Now remind me how old John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were when they won their last world titles, that tells you quite a bit about why Hendry won his when he did!

But doesn't that imply that it's easier to win now, if players who are supposed to be past their best are still at the top of the game? :wink:

[sberry]

Exactly Odrl, and if those players who have been around for twenty plus years are only just beginning to win their first ranking titles now the big guns have gone, are we saying they are peaking in their 30s and 40s?

The big guns have gone and the game is wide open now, look at the semi final in this, the biggest comp held outside the UK - Ebdon to get to the semi had a walkover, Stephen Maguire(6) and Ricky Walden(13) and Trump had to play Fergal O'Brien(35), Aditya Mehta(71) and Mark Allen(9) - are we saying this is tougher snooker than the 80s and 90s?

They're all as good as each other these days but that doesn't mean they would have threatened the top 16 in the glory days.

[billabong]

No wind up and I don't need to do any homework, we could do without the patronising chat too, members like you never engage in debate, you merely think your opinion is correct and everyone else is an idiot.

Firstly did I claim that Hendry won a world title in the 80's?

I'm fully aware of the players around when he did win his world titles, they still aren't as strong as they have been over the past decade, the strength in depth is much stronger now than when Hendry won any of his titles, period! Remind me again how old Hendry was when he won his last world title. Now remind me how old John Higgins and Ronnie O'Sullivan were when they won their last world titles, that tells you quite a bit about why Hendry won his when he did!

I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone, who the hell do you think you are! I've given my thoughts and am fully entitled to them. However I don't ever take offence or attack a post because I don't agree with it, that is how debate works, you have an opinion, I have an opinion. No need for the sarcastic or patronising comments that you have displayed. How about you go away and learn some manners and respect for members who've been about a lot longer than you.

Cueman, firstly apologies , the homework line was a badly chosen way of saying that I didn't think your line of reasoning was correct.

Upon re-reading the post, I realise it was the wrong thing to say. A severe case of typing without connecting the brain.

I know you didn't say Hendry was a champ in the 80's, but when you compared the difference between Hendry and Trump, you focussed on the players he faced in the 80's, wheras when you consider who he faced in the top 16 in the 90's, he had the likes of Higgins, O'Sullivan, Doherty, Williams, and near the late 90's Lee , Stevens & Hunter, to contend with.

In my opinion , they are a stronger collection of players than they have been over the past decade.

As you say though, it is only my opinion. . :black_eyed:

[cueman]

fair do's and apology accepted. I think its fruitless trying to compare eras, its always a debate that can never be agreed so i think its best we just leave it at that.

[cazmac1]

Hendry is still the best ever tho....lol

[cazmac1]

Cueman, firstly apologies , the homework line was a badly chosen way of saying that I didn't think your line of reasoning was correct.

Upon re-reading the post, I realise it was the wrong thing to say. A severe case of typing without connecting the brain.

I know you didn't say Hendry was a champ in the 80's, but when you compared the difference between Hendry and Trump, you focussed on the players he faced in the 80's, wheras when you consider who he faced in the top 16 in the 90's, he had the likes of Higgins, O'Sullivan, Doherty, Williams, and near the late 90's Lee , Stevens & Hunter, to contend with.

In my opinion , they are a stronger collection of players than they have been over the past decade.

As you say though, it is only my opinion. . :black_eyed:

couldn't agree more with your assessment on the players of that era and the one's we have now.