Machine spliced cues

[GR1]

Hi all...can anyone help with machine spliced cues that have a flat in the bottom splice going into the butt as opposed to a pointed one..when did these cues first start appearing? Thanks.

[DeanH]

hi there
can you add a photo or two as (I may be dim here) I can't visualise what you are describing

[robbo mcs]

I think I understand what you mean. Do you mean the triangular shape of the splice is cut off and flat, at the butt end, whereas at the tip end it is sharp and pointy? If so, that is pretty normal on most machine spliced cues

There are some good pics and explanations on the Mike Wooldridge website
https://handmadecues.com/identify-cues/

[GR1]

Sorry...i have great difficulty uploading pictures.lmagine a really old machine spliced cue where the points are really sharp and pointed ...then imagine the ash splice going down into the butt is basically clipped off for the last 5mm is flat..as if the point is broken off.but the butt splice going up into the cue is still pointed..i m just wondering in what years this first appeared

[DeanH]

ah ha - I was dumb and thinking you were talking about the "flat" as in the chamfer on the butt not the square ends of the shaft ends into the butt wood

This I have always taken to be the thickness of the saw used to make the shaft splices and the butt receiving parts

The butt top end splices will be to a point due to the natural angle of the glued on butt wood being shaped down.

There was a video of a machine spliced butt being constructed and clearly showed the process.
I think it could have been an American cue maker.

[Cue crafty]

I think this started around the 80’s. I have a Michael Dunham cue bought about 1984 which has the flat at the bottom of the splice finger.

The machines used got a lot more accurate at this time. If you look a lot of the older machine splice cues the fingers on most are way off and all different lengths.

This is the smaller flat I mention which started in the 80's


This more pronounced flat started much more recently I believe circa 2020....? Others may know more.



Hope the pics help people understand better.

[robbo mcs]

I think this was earlier than the 80's.

Here are a couple of 4ft kids cues I have kept from our family table when I was a kid. We got these with the table in the mid 70's. They look like the pic above, chopped of base of the splice, and uneven fingers.

I kept these, they are useful for kids, or vertically challenged adults

[GR1]

I can tell you that I've spoken to someone who is regarded as the Oracle on such matters...who I won't name,(not because it's some secret..but more because I havnt asked his permission) that cues with flats at the bottom of machine splices came out in about 1940.

[Cue crafty]

I can tell you that I've spoken to someone who is regarded as the Oracle on such matters...who I won't name,(not because it's some secret..but more because I havnt asked his permission) that cues with flats at the bottom of machine splices came out in about 1940.

Wow! Thanks for that, way older than I thought. Be interesting to know how the machines used, evolved through that process. 👍

[DeanH]

Hi all...can anyone help with machine spliced cues that have a flat in the bottom splice going into the butt as opposed to a pointed one..when did these cues first start appearing? Thanks.

I can tell you that I've spoken to someone who is regarded as the Oracle on such matters...who I won't name,(not because it's some secret..but more because I havnt asked his permission) that cues with flats at the bottom of machine splices came out in about 1940.

We can push this date further back.

Riley Joe Davis 132 break cue came machine-spliced, the break was in 1932, the next break was 135 in 1937 so that narrow window times the 132 nicely.

The earliest mention of machine-spliced is for a John Roberts Snr cue by Alcock dated from 1878-1894, source Hunter/Ainsworth Vintage Cue Series.

The size of the square end varies from almost imperceptible to roughly 4-5mm.

[GR1]

I may be able to lower it by a year or two..i have a W Cook Pattern cue by Cox and Yeman 184 Brompton rd.Circa 1874 ..no stamp with cut out on butt end for leather pad for certain shots it was about this time the butt shot was banned and stamps for weight came in.Its machine spliced ebony coming in at a whacking 19 oz and 37mm butt.Made in France as a glued together stave and finished at Cox to get around finished goods import duty.My earliest is a Stevens cue of London which is a butterfly splice from around 1868..

[GR1]

There was conjecture as to whether Cox made their own cues but seeing early photos pre 1900 they were certainly making their own rests and long stuff so it's no big leap in imagination to say they made cues as well

[vmax]

I think this started around the 80’s. I have a Michael Dunham cue bought about 1984 which has the flat at the bottom of the splice finger.

The machines used got a lot more accurate at this time. If you look a lot of the older machine splice cues the fingers on most are way off and all different lengths.

The two pieces of wood are joined when still square and then turned down and tapered so the points will never be as accurate as a handmade cue that has the butt splices added after it's been planed down and tapered.
CNC machines have made this process more accurate but allowing for the wood to move between machinings and altering the next cut to straighten it if it does will make the points different lengths.
I made my first cue by adding the butt splices when the shaft was still square and the difference between the tips of the splices was about 20mm by the time I'd hand planed it down to finished size it and got it straight, they were very pointed as well, looked like a machine spliced cue, learned my lesson first time out

[itsnoteasy]

The two pieces of wood are joined when still square and then turned down and tapered so the points will never be as accurate as a handmade cue that has the butt splices added after it's been planed down and tapered.
CNC machines have made this process more accurate but allowing for the wood to move between machinings and altering the next cut to straighten it if it does will make the points different lengths.
I made my first cue by adding the butt splices when the shaft was still square and the difference between the tips of the splices was about 20mm by the time I'd hand planed it down to finished size it and got it straight, they were very pointed as well, looked like a machine spliced cue, learned my lesson first time out

When a shaft moves ɓetween plannings how do you get it back.
by that I'm mean do you plane more from the curved side or more from the hump side( I don't really know how to put that) or is it a bit of both or does it depend where it is, so it's a different answer if it up at the tip compared to if it's down at the shoulder.
Is there a maximum amount of movement that can be brought back, is there a maximum of a few mill before you have to bin it?
I find all this stuff fascinating

[Cue crafty]

The two pieces of wood are joined when still square and then turned down and tapered so the points will never be as accurate as a handmade cue that has the butt splices added after it's been planed down and tapered.
CNC machines have made this process more accurate but allowing for the wood to move between machinings and altering the next cut to straighten it if it does will make the points different lengths.
I made my first cue by adding the butt splices when the shaft was still square and the difference between the tips of the splices was about 20mm by the time I'd hand planed it down to finished size it and got it straight, they were very pointed as well, looked like a machine spliced cue, learned my lesson first time out

Thanks V , I've watched some YouTube vids with CNC machines, no wonder craftsman can't make much money out of cue making anymore. I enjoyed seeing a craftsman make this though. Dave Coutts