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Hello everybody,
I'm new to this forum as I had the idea of restoring my brother's old Peradon King cue (raised and faded grain, no more filler) and tried to soak up every information out there on how to do it properly. After now about a week of research, I'm still not sure what to do effectively, but I'd thought why not discuss this topic (again 😁) among some of you, who may have some experience with it.
First of all I want to share some basic information I gathered along my way. I may need to emphasize here that I'm from Germany, so availability of some UK based products might be a concern (like some special MW products or other cue oils).
Furthermore I'm atm focused on classic linseed oil finishing. I didn't get my head around mixtures or other oils like tung oil, danish oil, tru oil, etc. yet
Linseed oils - which is the right one?
I often came across the debate whether raw or boiled is better suited, just to notice there are far more categories than just these two (at least over here). Here is a short overview, but by no means I'm any kind of expert in this 😅
Refined linseed oil - also known as hot pressed, contains a lot enzymes, mucilage & suspended solids, relatively lower on unsaturated fatty acids (more on that below), limited storage period before getting rancid.
Cold-pressed linseed oil - food grade/supermarket quality, contains enzymes, mucilage & suspended solids as well, high amount of unsaturated fatty acids, can get rancid after a while as well.
"Lackleinöl" (=Alkali refined linseed oil?) - purified & filtered version of either of the two above, so almost no mucilage & co, just a lot of unsatured fatty acids. Much brighter color, almost no smell of linseed oil, doesn't get rancid. Less yellowing over time.
Stand oil - the traditional vacuum boiled & thickened version for prepolymerization without siccatives/driers. Can come as purified and non-purified as seen above. Available in different viscosities, but generally penetrates the wood less.
Sun thickened oil - slowly prepolymerized through long time UV exposure. Very similar to stand oil.
Blown linseed oil - prepolymerized through (sometimes hot) air circulation. Also similar to standoil, but seems to be more viscous, darker in colour and faster drying due to some oxygen bond stuff I don't understand :P
"Leinölfirnis" or often simply Boiled linseed oil - this can be all of the above mentioned variants or a blend of these combined with additional driers, mostly manganese based. So watch out closely what's exactly in there
Now what to look for?
Some posts in various topics in this forum mentioned a certain stickiness even after some time of drying, which is often said to be down to using too much oil (which sounds reasonable to my mind). But there is another point what I would call the "gum up factor" of each oil type. So here some theory from what I read:
The polymerization process happens mainly when the linolic acid (one of the unsaturated fatty acids) builds some bonds with oxygen. The saturated fatty acids, proteins and all the other stuff do not contribute to this curing process and will remain as "individual parts" in the mix, which can be felt as a tacky & unhardened surface. In some cases this might be wanted, but I guess the way to go here is to get the finish as hard as possible for smooth gliding on the bridge hand.
Therefore, I think the purified form should be preferred, either as raw or prepolymerized. It is said to dry generally quicker (still slow of course) and more thorough, has better water protection and has no chance to get rancid and smell bad.
Of course I would prefer faster drying times and opt for a stand/blown oil variant, but to obtain a good penetration into the wood, it has to be heated up slightly.
So my question here is, am I on the right path and do you think the cue can handle a heated oil of around 60-80°C? Would make waiting time a breeze
Grain filler
To sum up, I have little to no idea about this topic. I have heard many things about wood glue & super glue with ebony/grpahite dust, oils, cigarette & paper ash, wood stain, sanding sealer, shoe polish, and so on
I'm looking here for an easy and ready-to-use product without tinkering to much about. So here are my favorites until now:
Legends Grain Filler black - seems to be a rather new product and exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately availability here in Germany is bad, did reach out to the manufacturer, but no solution in sight. Additionally could not find any information on wheter it's oil or water based. Read also somewhere, that it dries out fairly quickly and becomes unusuable...
Nitorlack Grain Filler black - this is a water-based grain filler originally for classical guitars, very easy to use (apply water for right consitency and go).
Rustins Grain Filler natural - according to some posts, this stuff works well on cues and is oil-based. But is has to be dyed some way, what would the best option be here?
Clou Wood Filler black - can bought as water- or oil-based (the latter is said to be smoother). It's of course no grain filler, but also a bit pasty and can be thinned with water or white spirit. What do you think of this option. Furthermore, it's the cheapest option of them all, but I'm not sure if I want to try it on this cue.
Aqua Coat Grain Filler clear - among luthiers this stuff is quite popular and easy to handle. Has to be dyed as well (no clue what to use) and is obviously water-based.
My questions are now, does it matter if the grain filler is water- or oil based. Will it affect the oil finish is some way? Found only little information on which is suitable for what kind of finish, but very confusing thou.
Sorry for this long post, I hope there is some discussion stuff for you in there 😋
Cheers Julian
P.S.: would be very cool if Mike would offer his products over here in some shops, would make life much easier 😀
I'm new to this forum as I had the idea of restoring my brother's old Peradon King cue (raised and faded grain, no more filler) and tried to soak up every information out there on how to do it properly. After now about a week of research, I'm still not sure what to do effectively, but I'd thought why not discuss this topic (again 😁) among some of you, who may have some experience with it.
First of all I want to share some basic information I gathered along my way. I may need to emphasize here that I'm from Germany, so availability of some UK based products might be a concern (like some special MW products or other cue oils).
Furthermore I'm atm focused on classic linseed oil finishing. I didn't get my head around mixtures or other oils like tung oil, danish oil, tru oil, etc. yet
Linseed oils - which is the right one?
I often came across the debate whether raw or boiled is better suited, just to notice there are far more categories than just these two (at least over here). Here is a short overview, but by no means I'm any kind of expert in this 😅
Refined linseed oil - also known as hot pressed, contains a lot enzymes, mucilage & suspended solids, relatively lower on unsaturated fatty acids (more on that below), limited storage period before getting rancid.
Cold-pressed linseed oil - food grade/supermarket quality, contains enzymes, mucilage & suspended solids as well, high amount of unsaturated fatty acids, can get rancid after a while as well.
"Lackleinöl" (=Alkali refined linseed oil?) - purified & filtered version of either of the two above, so almost no mucilage & co, just a lot of unsatured fatty acids. Much brighter color, almost no smell of linseed oil, doesn't get rancid. Less yellowing over time.
Stand oil - the traditional vacuum boiled & thickened version for prepolymerization without siccatives/driers. Can come as purified and non-purified as seen above. Available in different viscosities, but generally penetrates the wood less.
Sun thickened oil - slowly prepolymerized through long time UV exposure. Very similar to stand oil.
Blown linseed oil - prepolymerized through (sometimes hot) air circulation. Also similar to standoil, but seems to be more viscous, darker in colour and faster drying due to some oxygen bond stuff I don't understand :P
"Leinölfirnis" or often simply Boiled linseed oil - this can be all of the above mentioned variants or a blend of these combined with additional driers, mostly manganese based. So watch out closely what's exactly in there
Now what to look for?
Some posts in various topics in this forum mentioned a certain stickiness even after some time of drying, which is often said to be down to using too much oil (which sounds reasonable to my mind). But there is another point what I would call the "gum up factor" of each oil type. So here some theory from what I read:
The polymerization process happens mainly when the linolic acid (one of the unsaturated fatty acids) builds some bonds with oxygen. The saturated fatty acids, proteins and all the other stuff do not contribute to this curing process and will remain as "individual parts" in the mix, which can be felt as a tacky & unhardened surface. In some cases this might be wanted, but I guess the way to go here is to get the finish as hard as possible for smooth gliding on the bridge hand.
Therefore, I think the purified form should be preferred, either as raw or prepolymerized. It is said to dry generally quicker (still slow of course) and more thorough, has better water protection and has no chance to get rancid and smell bad.
Of course I would prefer faster drying times and opt for a stand/blown oil variant, but to obtain a good penetration into the wood, it has to be heated up slightly.
So my question here is, am I on the right path and do you think the cue can handle a heated oil of around 60-80°C? Would make waiting time a breeze
Grain filler
To sum up, I have little to no idea about this topic. I have heard many things about wood glue & super glue with ebony/grpahite dust, oils, cigarette & paper ash, wood stain, sanding sealer, shoe polish, and so on
I'm looking here for an easy and ready-to-use product without tinkering to much about. So here are my favorites until now:
Legends Grain Filler black - seems to be a rather new product and exactly what I'm looking for. Unfortunately availability here in Germany is bad, did reach out to the manufacturer, but no solution in sight. Additionally could not find any information on wheter it's oil or water based. Read also somewhere, that it dries out fairly quickly and becomes unusuable...
Nitorlack Grain Filler black - this is a water-based grain filler originally for classical guitars, very easy to use (apply water for right consitency and go).
Rustins Grain Filler natural - according to some posts, this stuff works well on cues and is oil-based. But is has to be dyed some way, what would the best option be here?
Clou Wood Filler black - can bought as water- or oil-based (the latter is said to be smoother). It's of course no grain filler, but also a bit pasty and can be thinned with water or white spirit. What do you think of this option. Furthermore, it's the cheapest option of them all, but I'm not sure if I want to try it on this cue.
Aqua Coat Grain Filler clear - among luthiers this stuff is quite popular and easy to handle. Has to be dyed as well (no clue what to use) and is obviously water-based.
My questions are now, does it matter if the grain filler is water- or oil based. Will it affect the oil finish is some way? Found only little information on which is suitable for what kind of finish, but very confusing thou.
Sorry for this long post, I hope there is some discussion stuff for you in there 😋
Cheers Julian
P.S.: would be very cool if Mike would offer his products over here in some shops, would make life much easier 😀
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