Why pay more for an ultimate maple cue

[cazmac1]

I just been looking at the pricing for JP cue's on his web site and can fully understand why you would pay more for an ultimate ash cue but can't understand why you would pay more for a maple ultimate as it has little or no noticeable grain. You can buy a JP handmade special in maple to your exact measurements for £200 less than the ultimate. Can someone explain to me what it is you’re paying the extra £200 for?

[G30 MC]

JP Ultimate

According to John Parris its the qaulity of the wood.:snooker:

[cazmac1]

This doesn't make any sense it suggests that all his other cue's are made of substandard shafts, surely this can't be right. I thought it was due to the fact one is hand planed and left to settle between plaining while the other is machine turned and then finished my hand. I personally think as long as the cue is straight why pay extra for hand plaining. I don't think the cue will play any better or worse either way.

[cueman]

Its the one grey area with cuemakers who put this surcharge on any of their cues.

Its a bit like the green plate and black plate range too, why the sudden price increase, surely they should just make good quality cues period. After all wood is wood, its natural, it doesn't cost more to buy so why should it cost more to turn it into a cue?!!!!!!

Its just a con really for people that want to show off their top of the range badge, if it makes them happy in the belief that they have the best cue that money can buy then fair enough but a good quality player doesn't need an ego boost to help their game. I'd never pay for a cue like this, unless I actually tested out some cues and picked one out I liked and it happened to be an Ultimate or whatever, however I'd never choose these cues in the first place as I don't see the justification in spending in excess of £250 on a good quality cue. IF a cue maker can't make a decent quality cue for that kind of money then quite simply they are conning you. Just to add though I accept that fancy splicing adds to the cost but a standard plain cue, no frills, shouldn't cost more than that IMO, in fact it should be nearer £150 tops but I accept in the current climate and with geographical location that this price does vary.

[trevs1]

This doesn't make any sense it suggests that all his other cue's are made of substandard shafts, surely this can't be right. I thought it was due to the fact one is hand planed and left to settle between plaining while the other is machine turned and then finished my hand. I personally think as long as the cue is straight why pay extra for hand plaining. I don't think the cue will play any better or worse either way.

I would defy anyone to tell the difference between a hand planed shaft and one that has been turned.

There is no difference whatsoever in how they will feel or perform....fact.

[ken147]

Wouldn't a machine turned shaft be more suspectable to warping more than a hand planed shaft?

[trevs1]

Its the one grey area with cuemakers who put this surcharge on any of their cues.

Its a bit like the green plate and black plate range too, why the sudden price increase, surely they should just make good quality cues period. After all wood is wood, its natural, it doesn't cost more to buy so why should it cost more to turn it into a cue?!!!!!!

Its just a con really for people that want to show off their top of the range badge, if it makes them happy in the belief that they have the best cue that money can buy then fair enough but a good quality player doesn't need an ego boost to help their game. I'd never pay for a cue like this, unless I actually tested out some cues and picked one out I liked and it happened to be an Ultimate or whatever, however I'd never choose these cues in the first place as I don't see the justification in spending in excess of £250 on a good quality cue. IF a cue maker can't make a decent quality cue for that kind of money then quite simply they are conning you. Just to add though I accept that fancy splicing adds to the cost but a standard plain cue, no frills, shouldn't cost more than that IMO, in fact it should be nearer £150 tops but I accept in the current climate and with geographical location that this price does vary.

I'd have to agree with a lot of the above, but.......

Making hand built and finished cues to pretty exact specifications, using top quality and carefuly selected timber, would just not be commercially viable at a selling price of £150. There will be numerous reasons why cues from different makers cost this or that, and it's not just about the costs they incurr in the process of manufacture, as I'm sure many will be aware.
Anything hand made to individual customers specifications will always have a place in the world, and it will always cost more than it might appear reasonable. However, it's the skill and service of doing such work that costs money, and this applies to hand built cues every bit as much as it does to shoes, suits, watches, furniture and so on.

As I've mentioned in the post above, the playable difference in hand a planed or turned shafts is zero, but, with 'certain' makers, specifying a cue to very precise details, such as grain patterns in ash, the shape of a taper or an accurate balance point, and so on, requires more time and greater effort, and as such, incurrs some sort of price premium. Whether that price premium (whatever it may be) is worth the points in bold above is open to argument.

And so....

To justify such a premium price would be far easier to do if the method to produce the cue was said to be more time consuming, or more difficult, or even in some way was superior to 'other' ways of making the same finished product. This is where the hand planing thing comes into its own.

It matters not a jot in terms of the quality of the finished product, BUT, it does allow for 'some' justification of increased profits when using very very selective materials.

[trevs1]

Wouldn't a machine turned shaft be more suspectable to warping more than a hand planed shaft?

Yes, Ken, when they are poorly done and then put straight into service.

But, in truth, shafts can be straightened very very well, and very easily, and once done, are not any more likely to suffer with these issues than hand planed shafts.

If a month after producing them, you had two shafts, one turned and the other planed, both straight, no one would be able to tell the difference which was which.

As for the behaviour of a quality cue, and how straight it remains.....

It's every bit as much to do with the quality (and moisture) of the timber and how it is treated after it has left the workshop of the maker, as it is to do with the manner by which that cue was made.

[poolqjunkie]

I am always under the impression that only JP Ultimate cue features very even splices top and bottom while the others dont...

[trevs1]

I am always under the impression that only JP Ultimate cue features very even splices top and bottom while the others dont...

Hi Airin,

When you say this above, do you mean that of all the Parris cues, the Ultimates are the only ones with even splices???

Or do you mean that they are the only cues made by any maker with even splices top and bottom???

[poolqjunkie]

Hi Airin,

When you say this above, do you mean that of all the Parris cues, the Ultimates are the only ones with even splices???

Or do you mean that they are the only cues made by any maker with even splices top and bottom???

Hi Trevor,
I meant to say that from what I understand if I order a JP Ultimate the splices are even top and bottom while if it is his stock cues or the special or paragon then the top of the splices are even but the bottom are not necessarily even...Is that the case?

[cazmac1]

Thanks for the input trev, I'm interested in getting a maple cue, I'll pm you for a price.

[trevs1]

Hi Trevor,
I meant to say that from what I understand if I order a JP Ultimate the splices are even top and bottom while if it is his stock cues or the special or paragon then the top of the splices are even but the bottom are not necessarily even...Is that the case?

Not as far as I'm aware no.

[poolqjunkie]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks.

Do you mean even with his Ultimate cues his splices are not always even or that the splices are also even on his Paragon and Special...

I think with maple cues, if you want a super white piece of maple, with no cosmetic blemish anywhere, very tight straight grains, and so on, you would need to pay a premium price to get it, which is why he charges more...plus I always thought he would take more time to make sure the splices are very even with his Ultimate based on what he said on his site:

SPECIAL
The Ash or Maple shafts on these hand spliced cues are turned to an oversized straight taper, left to settle, then planed by hand to their finished size. Made to your own design and specifications.
Price From £340.00

PARAGON
Ash or maple shaft with hand-spliced butt. It will be made to your own design and specifications.
Price From £420.00

ULTIMATE
Ash or maple shaft with hand-spliced butt. As the name suggests this is a truly magnificent shaft, with the straightest of grain, very even points and a superb feel. It will be made to your own design and specifications.
Price From £530.00

Am I missing something here?

[cazmac1]

I think once you start talking about super white maple with tight straight grains. Your in need of some serious help. and I thought I had a problem