dave coutts and will hunt

[Deepscrew]

ummm seen this....

http://www.couttscues.co.uk/Eddie%20Mok/hk_china.html


Ive never seen ash as white as these Hunt cues from a UK maker.

[Asi]

Well well...just received my will hunt no. 9 cue.... very very very good cue. Feel and balance are superb! Shaft is stiff but with great response. The feel of the cue is perfect. Design wise, butt is beautiful with multi even splices. Timber is top quality plus jet black ebony . Shaft is on the white side with very dark grains! Looks better than most shaft i'v seen. Two things must be said, joints are different than H&O we know, very similar to north west cues. S.D joint is the same on old hunt cues. Splices on shaft could be better. In short, love it! I am sure this review won't end up this saga...but trust me (owned more than 30 top cue makers cue including 2 green plates from H&O) this cue would make any "cueaholic" very very pleased

[cueman]

Good to hear the cue plays well Asi. I think the whole saga of who made the cue becomes somewhat irrelevant if, in your case, you end up with a good quality playing cue. This should always trump the facts of whether the cue was made in part or wholly by someone else. However I can understand why people would be reluctant to buy a cue if they have uncertainty about its authenticity, especially at the top end of the market.

[Asi]

Good to hear the cue plays well Asi. I think the whole saga of who made the cue becomes somewhat irrelevant if, in your case, you end up with a good quality playing cue. This should always trump the facts of whether the cue was made in part or wholly by someone else. However I can understand why people would be reluctant to buy a cue if they have uncertainty about its authenticity, especially at the top end of the market.

Couldn't agree more with every word. Would be intresting to hear other people here who bought and received their cue.

[louise sheldon]

the cues are all done to an average specification with some variances just as he did with robert osborne and as robert is doing now so that they dont have to deal with all the hassle of picky customers and changing specifications half way through, if you wanted one specific specification it may be possible for me to alter one but this would add to cost

I actually sent an email to coutts cues asking that the cues listed is not to my specs and if it is possible to put an custom order to WILL HUNT through them......i never got a reply

Also an very experienced and knowledgeable member on this board has never comment on this thread...so that must have said something..

[Wayne G]

Here are the facts of my dealings with Coutts Cues regarding Will Hunt Cues.

Dec.4/11 - I telephoned Dave Coutts to enquire about the Will Hunt cues that he had for sale on his website. He said that he had one 1 pc. cue left. I asked him if it was made by Will Hunt and he assured me that it was. Therefore, I said OK I would take it and sent payment in full the same day. Cue arrived Dec.8/11.

Later on, rumours started on TSF that the cues were either partially or not at all made by Will Hunt. Naturally, I got concerned.

Feb.26/12 - I emailed Dave and told him about the rumours that I had heard and that I bought from him because he assured me that Will Hunt made the cue. I asked him what he thought of my situation.

Feb.29/12 - Dave emailed me - Quote "we do not know anything about the ins and outs of the cues, will Hunt personally came to us with the cues and certificates. i suggest that you contact him directly to ask these questions".

Now, I have 520 pounds(about $850 Canadian dollars) invested in the cue and minibutt, shipping, duty and taxes. I think I have a right at this point to at least know the truth.

Before the sale, the cue was made by Will Hunt. After the sale, Coutts doesn't have a clue about the cue. I feel that I have not been dealt with straight up.

Having had a second batch of cues now from Will Hunt, I wonder if he has a clue now?

I see that Louise Sheldon has now made a reply on this thread, but not to the question that everyone would like to have a solid answer to.

Wayne G

[Terry Davidson]

OH BOY, Wayne...now you've peed in the pickles for sure. Gonna love to see what Louise has to say (if she does).

I also bought one of those cues at the same price as you did and I didn't get what I ordered which was a cue over 18oz and mine came at 17.4oz. (Too bloody expensive to return) I was able to sell it on for $700 but I still took a little loss on it. The cue was fine but I don't think it was worth $850 or around 520GBP although the shipping was a chunk of that.

I'm not holding my breath.

Terry


Terry

[eaoin11]

Personally I don't lose sleep over who made the cue any more so long as the 'maker' stands by his product. I don't blame UK makers for the way the business is evolving because a lot of factors are out of their control, people still want their cues, and they have to make a living.

[trevs1]

Personally I don't lose sleep over who made the cue any more so long as the 'maker' stands by his product. I don't blame UK makers for the way the business is evolving because a lot of factors are out of their control, people still want their cues, and they have to make a living.

Maybe the words "some" before the UK makers would be more accurate.

Some of us UK makers have no overseas assistance.

[narl]

Starting to look decidedly dodgy this, the question evasion and partial answers are all too obvious. =/

[eaoin11]

Maybe the words "some" before the UK makers would be more accurate.

Some of us UK makers have no overseas assistance.

True. I was just trying to say that the market as a whole has changed, particularly with the increased competition in china. I don't want to devalue the work of those making their cues in the UK.

[jonnylovessn8ker]

I don’t mean to offend anyone. I am not here to pick a fight. I am not taking any sides. If I have given this impression, I sincerely apologize in advance. Here are my humble thoughts:

It is perfectly normal for anyone to be deeply curious about their purchases, but it perplexes me when people don’t see that the inherent risks of purchasing a cue are not so different than any other purchases in a different context.

Suppose you go to a good restaurant called Steve's Kitchen, obviously the head chef being Steve. Under him are his staff and apprentices to aid day to day operations of the restaurant, under Steve's strict guidance and scrutiny. Steve takes part in all the process by obtaining fresh supplies and taking part in crucial parts of the production of the dish. Anything that goes out to the client is highly likely to have been personally inspected and authorized by Steve himself. Like most responsible, registered retailers, should the client be not satisfied with their dish, they can request an alternative dish or a refund, within reason through negotiation.

Products’ quality will invariably match the consumers’ general consensus. Willingness to pay will eventually be justified by this consensus. (generally speaking)

Most importantly, it is Chef Steve’s own name that is being put out there on the line and his reputation is at stake. The goodwill that goes into Steve’s dishes is quite simply trust, trust that there is quality delivered, trust that there is full assurance backed by Steve, trust that Steve meets regulatory sanitary requirements which is backed by a certificate of proof, and trust that you won’t die from eating them. (Perhaps more, but I guess this is the bare minimal)

One can always be curious and ask questions. One can go as far as asking Steve where specifically the cow was butchered and raised, and Chef Steve probably wouldn’t know, except the fact that the meat is freshly cut and tender (and does not contain mad cow disease). Our hypothetical Steve would not know a lot of the answers too, because he doesn’t know since it is beyond him, or he doesn’t know enough to be certain so that he prefers to not say (otherwise he would be held accountable for lying, and subsequent bad-mouthing a trusted supplier without evidence). This is an issue of professional conduct.

There is nothing wrong in questioning, it is just that we don’t live in a transparent world. The same goes for buying a company’s share, or our “fair-trade” coffee/milk/sugar/etc.

This is how sell-side business always works. I believe the dynamics of this process is no different than most cuemakers’, more or less.

The point is you will never always know everything, and therefore there are always inherent risks in all purchases. There will be things that even the re-seller or direct service/goods provider wouldn’t know. At the very end, there are always the elements of goodwill and blind faith, and any purchasing decisions are about managing them. And with any professional business setting, there is always room for negotiation. I think this applies to the wide cue buying public and beyond.

[Wayne G]

Jonny,

I fully understand what you're saying and in your scenario it's OK.

But, when you're buying a specific, expensive, long-term item, it's a little bit different. There should not be any "inherent risks of purchasing a cue" from a reputable cue maker.

I wanted a cue that was handmade by Will Hunt and that's what I was told I was buying. Afterwards the story is different.

Please read my post #66 again and put yourself in my shoes.

[willtyson]

I think what you said there speaks a lot of truth Johnny. People, in my opinion, should look into what they're buying first and if it isn't what they want to be happening within what they're buying, ie; the production line. Then it's they're choice to or not to buy the item. Cue being shot down in flames lol

[Matt-10ant]

Right then is it just me thats confused lol i have the opportunity to buy one of these cues tomorrow or a Stamford series 1 but all this is conversation is doubting me which one to buy are these Will Hunt's genuine as dont want to spend my money on a fake really.