handmade ??? probably not !!!

[crispian jones]

i got a Quoto from one of the Asia cue maker,their want 600 USD for a cue in the picture 1,Asia cue is not cheap anymore.

600 usd = £££???

[willtyson]

600 usd = £££???

£390..............

[billabong]

Pasting a comment I made on another thread regarding handmade cues, as far as I am concerned I would only consider "handmade" cues by the following cue makers.

John Parris
Trevor White
Dave Coutts
Stamford Cues
Robin Cook
Craftsman Cues
Tony Glove
Crispian Jones
Jim Evans

If there are any others that fully make by hand rather than finish off and stick their badge on then it is up to them to prove they do rather than allow people to assume they are handmade simply because the badge says so. Semantics aside, if a cue maker is charging a premium price on a cue on the pretence that they have fully handmade it but have actually just bought in, finished off and badged it then it is fraud. Whilst a cue handmade in Thailand is still handmade, if the cue maker is saying that he makes it himself or implies it is handmade by him by charging the price that reflects such then it is misleading the customer. Reputations can be faked as easily as pretending they make the cues from scratch. I wouldn't buy a cue from someone whose only selling track record seems to exist on an internet forum, makes no sense when there are known, reliable cue makers out there.

I'd say you can add Jason Owen to your list.

From cue ordering to delivery, the email thread came with a multitude of pictures , from the blank butt wood, through splicing, to final finishing.

Not what a cue maker wants to be doing all day, but good to keep with the cue I'd say.

070_01.jpg 070_04sml.jpg070_08.jpg

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[joejoe]

600 usd = £££???

Yep,close to 400 pound,cue maker in asia must be a rich people.but so far the UK ' hand make ' cue still hold it resale value,that's good news.

[stejohn]

But Steve the problem is that it is not a handmade cue by crispian jones as he freely admits he buys them from Thailand and they already have ebony spliced to them, so the cue was made in Thailand! Crispian has to do a lot of work after that like decorative splices, weight, taper, finish, badge etc but the cue was made originally in Thailand, now cris is 1 of they guys who is honest about this and I applaud him for that. I've actually ordered a handmade cue from him too so I can't wait to get that in a few months

Yep i agree and if its spliced then its not handmade by Crispian, what i was trying to say is Crispian could be better off just buying the shaft's in ready turned then do all the splicing/weighting,joints,finishing etc, less work but still counts as a handmade cue imo.
Id be surprised if all the top makers planed/turned their own shafts.

[crispian jones]

Yep i agree and if its spliced then its not handmade by Crispian, what i was trying to say is Crispian could be better off just buying the shaft's in ready turned then do all the splicing/weighting,joints,finishing etc, less work but still counts as a handmade cue imo.
Id be surprised if all the top makers planed/turned their own shafts.

i do these stejohn, there are called handmade cues

these are not the issue mate, ive decided that i dont want to spend all my time on handmade cues, simply because i have cases on the go and they are far to time consuming to me, i work alone here sourcing and collecting everything possible and to be honest i dont ever see me having time to visit timber yards more than twice a year ! therefore i want the thai cues to be a part of my business, there is far more money to be made with them as the time spent working on them is far far less than my handmade products !
my gripe wich is growing by the hour is that i do everything on these cues that half a dozen other makers here on the forum do to there cues, admitedly some far better than others from what ive seen, but ive decided that i will badge them how i feel right and for that i will only ever sell these cues for half of what others will, when in fact they are the same cues mostly supplied from the same place, and that is what is getting to me !!!
now people can defend or critisize as mutch as they like on either side of the fence, but eventually this practice will come out im sure, and to name just one guy would be unfair and to point the finger as i suppose ive done is also a little overboard probably but these are facts !
the words "handmade" will always insinuate that a given product is made by the name on the badge, and with cues it really seems a different rule aplies ?

anyway ive chosen my path and will just have to work a little harder to achive my goals

[renzie67]

Great position to be in to be so busy you can't keep up with demand for your cues and cases mate. Why don't you employ an apprentice ?

[farrelld91]

i do these stejohn, there are called handmade cues

these are not the issue mate, ive decided that i dont want to spend all my time on handmade cues, simply because i have cases on the go and they are far to time consuming to me, i work alone here sourcing and collecting everything possible and to be honest i dont ever see me having time to visit timber yards more than twice a year ! therefore i want the thai cues to be a part of my business, there is far more money to be made with them as the time spent working on them is far far less than my handmade products !
my gripe wich is growing by the hour is that i do everything on these cues that half a dozen other makers here on the forum do to there cues, admitedly some far better than others from what ive seen, but ive decided that i will badge them how i feel right and for that i will only ever sell these cues for half of what others will, when in fact they are the same cues mostly supplied from the same place, and that is what is getting to me !!!
now people can defend or critisize as mutch as they like on either side of the fence, but eventually this practice will come out im sure, and to name just one guy would be unfair and to point the finger as i suppose ive done is also a little overboard probably but these are facts !
the words "handmade" will always insinuate that a given product is made by the name on the badge, and with cues it really seems a different rule aplies ?

anyway ive chosen my path and will just have to work a little harder to achive my goals

I think the whole point that crispian is trying to make has got lost in amongst all the waffle on this thread

Its simple enough, buying in ready made cues and just finishing them off but then selling them on as a completly hand made product made by them is wrong and i think as people have rightly said is fraudulent miss-selling and quite frankly pretty rank

Im thinking of starting my own cue business, on a completly different topic, where did you get these thai cues from crispian?

[stejohn]

That's fair enough Crispian, i don't understand enough about making cues to know exactly how much work goes into each part of making a cue. I just thought turning down a shaft from a blank may have been the biggest job, so by buying them in pre-tapered could have saved you a lot of work as i thought you mentioned you tapered down your own handmade cues. Looking at some of the very impressive work that goes into your customised cues can see how pi@@ed off you must get knowing how little work goes into other's handmade cues.

[stejohn]

i think alot of us might like to know where these Thai cues come from lol

[RogiBear]

Im thinking of starting my own cue business, on a completly different topic, where did you get these thai cues from crispian?

I think the answer you will get is thailand, doubtful he'd give away his contacts. It's an integral part of his business.

[crispian jones]

Great position to be in to be so busy you can't keep up with demand for your cues and cases mate. Why don't you employ an apprentice ?

might think about that when i can afford to pay myself a wage (if ever)

[crispian jones]

I think the whole point that crispian is trying to make has got lost in amongst all the waffle on this thread

Its simple enough, buying in ready made cues and just finishing them off but then selling them on as a completly hand made product made by them is wrong and i think as people have rightly said is fraudulent miss-selling and quite frankly pretty rank

Im thinking of starting my own cue business, on a completly different topic, where did you get these thai cues from crispian?

the thai cues are easy enough to sorce - but the customised badges it seems are very difficult

[farrelld91]

I think the answer you will get is thailand, doubtful he'd give away his contacts. It's an integral part of his business.

I wish there was a sarcasm smiley

[mrbluejay]

The fundamental difference with the Apple analogy is that the component parts are Apple, made to their specs using materials AND manufacturing techniques Apple have approved, with staff employed / approved by Apple.

With the cue thing (as far as I am aware) the raw materials, the equipment, the manufacturing processes and labour, are all sourced and utilised by people other than those whose name ends up on the product.

To me, that's a completely different ball game altogether.

Trev,

The Apple analogy was in response to somebody comparing cues with rebranded products - I don't have an issue with items being rebranded/customised as long as that is clear from the outset and Apple are one of the companies who are clear about it, unlike some cuemakers from what is being said here.

Having seen the lumps of wood you got imported, I know the provenance of my new cue !