Bling - are Vaneers a Bad Idea?

[bolton-cueman]

So when rex williams set up poweglide they had to wait 20 years before they made a cue

lololol....

[Master Blaster]

lost a mate today to cancer that might be effecting my typing he is the highest of many.

Wierd, I lost a best mate last week to the same, somewhere near his pancreas. So you have my deepest empathy. Tears are the greatest compliment of all. Take Care.

[Master Blaster]

Thanks for the lesson on timber, simply inspirational.

I'd rather not get into discussing this subject, because it's pretty pointless and fairly boring. However, suffice to say that if a dozen cues were put in front of various players, six made from KD timber and six from AD timber, you'd not be able to tell the difference. That's not just a spurious claim either, it's a fact. There are way too many variables involved to be able to make such a judgement based on drying process alone.

Really, this is true, whether you wish to take it in or not.

Is it a fact, have you done this experiment? If not, it's just a theory. How many cues have you made and played with from air-dried timber? You say there are too many variables but surely the biggest one of all is the very nature of the materials no?! If I put some dough in the oven it comes out different later. Baking and applying heat to plant material (wood) changes it's mechanical properties. Did you read the reference I pasted explaining why air-dried timber is superior?

The big difference between me and others is that I own and play with different cues, some air-dried. That's a real comparison. Until someone else does the same they're just talking theory, not empirical comparison. Make an air-dried ash cue please, compare it to kiln dried (like for like design) and let me know your thoughts, I'd be seriously interested from a top cue maker to hear his view when it is made and played with.

My own view is that air-dried wood has more life in it and as a result, more playability. Many will disagree but their views are based on supposition, not comparison or fact.

A lot of people centuries ago said there was no point sailing round the world as it was flat and you would fall off............

[Master Blaster]

So when rex williams set up poweglide they had to wait 20 years before they made a cue

If you read back you'll see that I said ash was in plentiful supply, both air and kiln. They simply had to buy the boards and rest them, then get more in that were younger. By the 80s, the business had been going for quite a while. Now are you suggesting that Powerglide lied about their claim to make cues from air-dried that was 12-24 years old?

Did you read the reference I left on my post?

[golferson123]

Bling - are Vaneers a Bad Idea?

yes I did read it you said powerglide air dried their own timber

[golferson123]

Just a simple question master you say you have used both air dried and kiln dried timber, how do you know?

[Master Blaster]

Just a simple question master you say you have used both air dried and kiln dried timber, how do you know?

Because the cue makers said so when the cues were made. I don't doubt them.

And I can feel it in the shot. I could feel it blindfolded.

I would go as far as to say that I can tell within in a couple of hits if a cue is air dried timber even if there is no knowledge of what the cue maker used. It's very obvious when you take the shot, the feel is very woody.

I will admit this, some players do prefer kiln cues. I've let them have a go with my cues and they prefer their own kiln wood. But they mostly lack finesse. I think air dried is for those players with soft hands and touch.

[andy carson]

Because the cue makers said so when the cues were made. I don't doubt them.

And I can feel it in the shot. I could feel it blindfolded.

I would go as far as to say that I can tell within in a couple of hits if a cue is air dried timber even if there is no knowledge of what the cue maker used. It's very obvious when you take the shot, the feel is very woody.

I will admit this, some players do prefer kiln cues. I've let them have a go with my cues and they prefer their own kiln wood. But they mostly lack finesse. I think air dried is for those players with soft hands and touch.

which provides the biggest amount of screw???? say 24 foots worth!

[jrc750]

Changing tips on a cue makes a massive difference to how a cue feels, air dried or kiln dried is a load of tripe

[ADR147]

Is it a fact, have you done this experiment? If not, it's just a theory. How many cues have you made and played with from air-dried timber? You say there are too many variables but surely the biggest one of all is the very nature of the materials no?! If I put some dough in the oven it comes out different later. Baking and applying heat to plant material (wood) changes it's mechanical properties. Did you read the reference I pasted explaining why air-dried timber is superior?

The big difference between me and others is that I own and play with different cues, some air-dried. That's a real comparison. Until someone else does the same they're just talking theory, not empirical comparison. Make an air-dried ash cue please, compare it to kiln dried (like for like design) and let me know your thoughts, I'd be seriously interested from a top cue maker to hear his view when it is made and played with.

My own view is that air-dried wood has more life in it and as a result, more playability. Many will disagree but their views are based on supposition, not comparison or fact.

A lot of people centuries ago said there was no point sailing round the world as it was flat and you would fall off............

nobody ever thought the world was flat it is an urban myth!

[andy carson]

are you using the exact same tip on each different one? ie taking it off one cue and re tipping it onto the other? if not your argument is null and void anyway as you are not using any control factors in the "experiment" as different tips of the same brand will play slightly or very differently to each other too.

[Master Blaster]

Just a simple question master you say you have used both air dried and kiln dried timber, how do you know?

* Yes, same tips on each cue, either Kamui M black or BDP. When I change tips, I change the lot. BDP are going on this week after a Kamui period, I'll be posting about that too! A lot of tipping ahead. Grrrrr

Golferson, I'd be interested to hear from you, as a cue maker, about splices and vaneers. I've seen a lot of very fancy cues on ebay/FB/here/etc, some are very ornate with marquetry as well. Sometimes, the sellers have said they can't get on with a cue and have another from the same cuemaker that they prefer. The classic example was that TW with a lot of splice, marquetry etc. I've seen very fancy JPs put up for sale as well. So do these cues lack feel, given that much more of the shaft wood has been planed away to make way for long exotic hardwoods way up the cue? I'm thinking to myself, even when these fancy cues are 1-piece, they can't contain much more shaft wood than a solid hardwood 3/4 butted cue. And then there's all that glue as well. How can that be good for feel?

Maybe you and some players here can elucidate? Cuz if extra splices/vaneers do reduce feel and increase cost substantially, is it a case of less value for more money?

[bolton-cueman]

* Yes, same tips on each cue, either Kamui M black or BDP. When I change tips, I change the lot. BDP are going on this week after a Kamui period, I'll be posting about that too! A lot of tipping ahead. Grrrrr

Golferson, I'd be interested to hear from you, as a cue maker, about splices and vaneers. I've seen a lot of very fancy cues on ebay/FB/here/etc, some are very ornate with marquetry as well. Sometimes, the sellers have said they can't get on with a cue and have another from the same cuemaker that they prefer. The classic example was that TW with a lot of splice, marquetry etc. I've seen very fancy JPs put up for sale as well. So do these cues lack feel, given that much more of the shaft wood has been planed away to make way for long exotic hardwoods way up the cue? I'm thinking to myself, even when these fancy cues are 1-piece, they can't contain much more shaft wood than a solid hardwood 3/4 butted cue. And then there's all that glue as well. How can that be good for feel?

Maybe you and some players here can elucidate? Cuz if extra splices/vaneers do reduce feel and increase cost substantially, is it a case of less value for more money?

mate... you have no credibility..... I have no idea why people still entertain having a discussion with you. Your knowledge of snooker is based on your fictional ramblings.

Instead of keeping your trap shut and listening to infinitely more knowledgeable people than yourself - and perhaps educate yourself in the process - you just blather on with utter waffle and argue the toss with people.

[Master Blaster]

Vaneers and splices then, good idea, just a bit of fancy decorating or a bad idea?

[Kieran m]

Most people, cuemakers included will tell you secondary splicings have no effect upon a cue other than the aesthetics of it. The only factor to think about when choosing splices is the length of the primary splice which may have a small impact upon the stiffness of the cue.