A Hollow Cue Butt

[poolqjunkie]

In my opinion, a good cue is also a piece of equipment built to transfer resonsance. I personally do not like a cue that dampens the hit too much.

I do not think hollowing the butt helps the hit of the cue, and I do not know what kind of hollow ping pong racket you were talking about. Most ping pong rackets I have seen were made with plywood, usually 5 to 7 layers. The handle is not hollow as far as I can tell. Some Japanese rackets uses a cork handle.

I have seen cues made with a cocobolo butt and they hit great. Snakewood is not used because it is not stable.

But you can build a nice cue with many kinds of wood other than ebony, it just depends on how you build it. Look at the American pool cues, they use all kinds of woods, some are all maple on the butt end (e.g. a Stain Southwest, or some Richard Harris...etc) and they have awesome hits. So, obviously,

I dont see how you can tell ebony or any wood's density with such certainly, I would think that the density varies based on many factors.

I would not be too concerned with a hollow section, or what kind of wood is used at the butt end, as long as it is balanced right and constructed well. Just my opinion.

What I want to ask is how is the hit of the accurate?

[trevs1]

Snookaman..

I think you may be placing more significance on the butt material than is really necessary.

While ebony is, and has been for some time, the timber of choice for cue butts, it isn't really due to the fact that it offers any substantial advantage over nunmerous other timbers. The fact that African ebony has a certain 'density' is not in itself an indication of its superiority over many other wood species. I know for an absolute fact that macassar ebony makes fantastic cues, as does Indian ebony, along with some of the other timbers you mention above. African ebony does not guarantee you ANY benefit regarding shock resistance over these other timbers, that's just not true, no matter what anyone tells you. In fact, it could be argued that a degree of 'shock' or 'vibration' is something a good number of players want to be able to feel, as a total lack of it will lead to a 'dead' or 'numb' feeling cue, which most players don't really like too much.

The point you make about the visible pores in the timber is also not entirely accurate.
While ebony is a very dense, fine textured timber, it does vary from piece to piece, and so does display a surprising variation in how close grained it appears to be.

I find it incredible how many people place such importance on the material used in the butt of a cue, in relation to how that cue performs, when in truth, it's has far less to do with the butt and more to do with the shaft. There definitely is a school of thought, (especially in the USA it seems) whereby the mention of this or that timber for a cue butt conjures up an idea of how that cue will play and perform. It would be an interesting test to have some of these people use a number of cues with the butts taped over, so they were left unseen.

I wonder how many could tell what cues had what timber in the butts by playing with them alone. Not many would be my guess.

[Wity]

I've just poked a straw into the end of my cue and nearly lost it !

Trevor took 7.5" out to counter the 1/2 oz added by the butt joint.

Wish I could drill that deep

[ADR147]

wish i could drill that shallow

[Watford]

Jesus wity are you taking your cue to bits already?
You've not had it a week yet!!!

[Wity]

I forgot to say I also stuck it up your cue butt ADR. Only went in about an inch and that's all. Maybe if i poked around in there I'd find you secret hoard of jelly tots ?

(Can I have a self cert mortgage on that other one, I think i'll need it the way i'm going )



I'm not altering it one bit Watford, what you don't realise is the cue was solid and 20 oz, the seller lived near Trevor so he took it to Trevor who added the butt joint and made me a nice smokey ebony butt applied his magic and a new badge and then posted it on.

[Watford]

Your not altering it!!!
You just taking the butt joint out and sticking straws and jelly tots up it!!!!
20oz bloody hell if it had been for me the whole cue would have been hollow

[Lovely Babe]

In my opinion, a good cue is also a piece of equipment built to transfer resonsance. I personally do not like a cue that dampens the hit too much.

I do not think hollowing the butt helps the hit of the cue, and I do not know what kind of hollow ping pong racket you were talking about. Most ping pong rackets I have seen were made with plywood, usually 5 to 7 layers. The handle is not hollow as far as I can tell. Some Japanese rackets uses a cork handle.

I have seen cues made with a cocobolo butt and they hit great. Snakewood is not used because it is not stable.

But you can build a nice cue with many kinds of wood other than ebony, it just depends on how you build it. Look at the American pool cues, they use all kinds of woods, some are all maple on the butt end (e.g. a Stain Southwest, or some Richard Harris...etc) and they have awesome hits. So, obviously,

I dont see how you can tell ebony or any wood's density with such certainly, I would think that the density varies based on many factors.

I would not be too concerned with a hollow section, or what kind of wood is used at the butt end, as long as it is balanced right and constructed well. Just my opinion.

What I want to ask is how is the hit of the accurate?

I think you are talking about American Pool sticks!

Contempary snooker cues use ebony butts as standard. The reason is simply to cut down on the reaction force transfer back to the hand. The Theory has been proven and practiced in many other industries as well. If you still think it is not important or you want more shock to improve your hand feel, then you may have to go back to school, I think.

The American cue makers never take the ebony advantage because they are in a diffeent market - the collectors' market.

Trevor White may be a great guitar maker, but bases on his convesations in this forum, I've noticed that he is definitely not a good snooker cue maker. He doesn't know much about woodmaking, and he doesn't know much about wood finishing, especially cross finishing. Basically, if you do not know cross finishing, forget about cue making! If he is a real cue maker, he wouldn't have time to come here to yap, yap, yap.

[gloveman]

Rubbish. Trevor white is one of the top cue makers in the uk. iF YOU THINK ANY DIFFERENT YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CUES!

[Lovely Babe]

Rubbish. Trevor white is one of the top cue makers in the uk. iF YOU THINK ANY DIFFERENT YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CUES!

Oh! Cut that out. Don't insult my intelligent!

Read all that he has posted, then you will know. I think he is building snooker cues with American Pool stick method. Ha, Ha, Ha.

[ADR147]

you are doing a fine job of displaying your own IQ and education without us insulting it.

[SideShowKeith]

Trevor White may be a great guitar maker, but bases on his convesations in this forum, I've noticed that he is definitely not a good snooker cue maker. He doesn't know much about woodmaking, and he doesn't know much about wood finishing, especially cross finishing. Basically, if you do not know cross finishing, forget about cue making! If he is a real cue maker, he wouldn't have time to come here to yap, yap, yap.

Is that you John?

[ADR147]

funny

[poolqjunkie]

I think you are talking about American Pool sticks!

Yes, I have more experience with pool cues, but not necessarily those made in the US. Other than dimensions, and construction methods, I don't see what is the difference in the basic requirement, which is to have a great "hit." How to define this great "hit" is perhaps where the difference comes in, and it could be subjective.

Contempary snooker cues use ebony butts as standard. The reason is simply to cut down on the reaction force transfer back to the hand.

I think ebony is used because it has been sort of a tradition, it is dense, and also because it is what most customers want. However, I have seen quite a few snooker cues built with other woods in the butts. What you are saying, if I understand correctly, is that ebony dampens the vibration of the cue, is that right? I actually think the ash shaft, taper, shaft construction, and the 3/4 brass joint would dampens the vibration more than the butt piece would. Besides, if dampening the vibration is the sole objective, wood would not be chosen to build cues in the first place. I would think that there is more to a great hitting cue than it just being very stiff.

The Theory has been proven and practiced in many other industries as well. If you still think it is not important or you want more shock to improve your hand feel, then you may have to go back to school, I think.

My point was that some vibration is desired in a cue--it is not as simple as saying a cue with lesser vibration is better always. That was what I tried to state in my previous post. If you do not agree, that is fine. I would like to hear some meanful and constructive points and facts. Thank you.

The American cue makers never take the ebony advantage because they are in a diffeent market - the collectors' market.

First of all, pool cues are not only made by Americans. There are great pool cue makers in many other countries, such and Germany, France, Japan, Canada... therefore, it is not politically correct to use the term American pool cues, unless you want to specify pool cues made by Americans only.

Secondly, a lot of pool cues are built with an ebony butt, especially those that were built with a more classical look.

Moreover, I am not sure what "advantage" you were referring to, I would assume you were referring to the "dampening" effect you referred to above? In that case, I have to state there are quite a few ways to dampen the hit with other woods, one method is coring. Also, there are many types of joint, and shaft configrations, which also serve to dampen the hit to various degree. So, to use ebony just to serve that purpose alone would not be necessary/sensable, and I doubt if anyone would believe using ebony instead of say cocobolo could actually offer such "advantage" effectively.

Some pool players actually believe an ebony forearm (the part between the joint to the handle) would make a difference in the hit. Some believe that an ebony forearm would make a cue more "powerful" and easier to generate more power. Some think a maple forearm would give a more lively feel...etc.

Pool cues are made for the players and collectors. One perfect example would be Southwest cues, which are relatively plain looking, but usually go for $3000+, because of the "hit." There are collectors collecting Southwest, but also lots of players sorting one for its playability. There are some cues solely built for collectional purposes, such as Arthur cues from Germany (usually over $10,000). Or perhaps Gina cues form the USA. Even then, playability is also of great concern to such cue makers, because believe it or not, some players do use these cues to play the game daily.

Trevor White may be a great guitar maker, but bases on his convesations in ... If he is a real cue maker, he wouldn't have time to come here to yap, yap, yap.

Trevor White does execellent work from the pictures I have seen of his cues. There are lots members here on the forum who would vouch for his work and I see no reason to doubt their knowledge.

There are 24 hours in a day, for your information, a person with good time management can do lots of things within those 24 hours. I am very grateful that he is willing to share his knowldeg here with us.

[snookaman]

Rubbish. Trevor white is one of the top cue makers in the uk. iF YOU THINK ANY DIFFERENT YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CUES!

Dear All,

I would give a serious thought to what our Lovely Babe said.

I was considering a new cue just about two months ago. I saw a poorly consctructed snooker cue by Trevor White on the eBay, and I personally asked Trevor in a private mesaage to confirm whether that is one of his production. He confirmed yes.

Then I turned to Keith Auld. I personally don't like the look of his cues. Nevertheless, he is a very frank person and we exchanges several private messages. I posted the hollowed butt question to Keith first. He could not answer my question, so I posted the question here.

Trevor White didn't seems to have knowledge of a hollow butt cue, but suddenly he had a 7.5 inches hollow butt cue invented!

End of the story.

Another story behind the scene:

I have decided to build my own cue. I started working with a cheap China made butt. The so called ebony butt is instead an ebonized butt. As I am picking up more information from woodwroking, I understand that you can actually "snakewoodize" or "cocoboloize" a cue butt from cheap wood as well. That's why a member here found his snakewood cue butt cracks.

Please see attachment. I have a photo to show the before and after of a cabinet.

Lovely Babe is also right that a true cue maker must know cross finishing. All the cue makers here said cross finishing is not possible! If you do not know cross finishing, you cannot perform French polishing which will give you a gross look! Without French polishing, you can only have a satin look. The easy way to by-pass this is to use two part finishing which looks like Fench polishing, but it leaves a thick coat of ployester on the cue. This is the most commonly used method for the final coat of most China Made butt. You simply dip the butt into the two mixtures and hang dry. They look very much the same but feel very differently.

My advice is that never buy any cue on the eBay. Always buy the cue from a trusted source/brand name because you will have to put all your trust on the cue maker. You won't know the material unless you strip it to the bare wood.