What table and what to do with it?

[spill]

Hello all,

Just want to start by saying what a great knowledge base for the uninformed, have been using the forum for a while now to get information since inheriting a table in our home we moved to 14 years ago, however after many years of enjoyment (enjoyment of snooker wont end as have watched for 30+ years) I need to make better use of the room where it's kept, so initially looking for advice as I know nothing about the table so any info would be appreciated, hopefully attached photos, but details I have it's 12ft, on one end there's a badge with E.J. Riley Accrington, on the other end Padmore and Sons, legs are turned and above each one there's some type of shield with leaves/tigs carved into,

11-09-16_1.jpg11-09-16_2.jpg11-09-16_3.jpg11-09-16_4.jpg11-09-16_5.jpg

Cheers,
Pete

[Geoff Large]

It could be any make from the photo's

a photo of the pocket plate may help from above showing the whole leather and pocket opening

also larger photos of the whole table

where about's are you in the UK , many tables do just stay around the area they where supplied from , like many Leeds based billiard firms you tend to get a lot of these tables in the surrounding areas , some do drift farther afield though
you really cannot go by the name plates as any firm could when recovering or re-rubber put their plate on the cushions
E J Riley normally have the name stamped in the cushions on the under side of the cushions and on top of the legs but you cannot see the top of the legs as slate is over them .
Padmore are part of the group of companies of Thurston clare and padmore ...now known by the oldest company and named THURSTON
Padmore did make tables and the shield may just be a company logo or free masons shield or Family crest , it possibly could be a Padmore table but I doubt it .

it may be a Roberts table or Palmers of london .

if you could take a cushion off and show the pocket plate fixing this could narrow it down .

[spill]

thanks Geoff for the reply, i'll remove a cushion tonight and check, had another look last night after reading about serial numbers and everything is stamped with 275 1qq

[spill]

found these on my phone IMG_88401.jpgIMG_88402.jpgIMG_88403.jpg

[Geoff Large]

Well you can rule out Riley , unless they made one or two with top plates as they where formed in the mid 1890s when all the firms where changing over to concealed pocket plates .
and I think they only ran a sports shop for the first few years before establishing a factory and to make tables by the early 1900s
maybe 100upper would know more .

these pocket plates are called top plates , or finger plates for obvious reasons , some even class these tables with the finger top plates as just billiard tables and other with concealed plates as snooker tables , well they are wrong
there is no such thing as a snooker tables they are all billiards tables even those made today , you play the game of snooker on a billiard Table not the other way round .

but we date tables with top plates before a certain date . but they may have still made few top plate tables after for a few years to use stock up .

these top plates where in use before 1896 so the table is older than 1896

being top plates I cannot say who made it as all the billiard firms used this type of plate prior to making their own attempts at concealed plates
all I can say is your table is an early one , now maybe that shield design is a family crest or a Freemasons house crest design ?
and you may have better luck going down that investigation on finding who the crest belongs to .

Serial numbers mean nothing to most of the billiard firms as records are either lost or Burnt .

[itsnoteasy]

found these on my phone [ATTACH]18504[/ATTACH][ATTACH]18505[/ATTACH][ATTACH]18506[/ATTACH]

Those look nippy pockets Spill.

[100-uper]

I agree with Geoff about the date of the table frame. All the prominent makers, both in London and the Provinces, progressively stopped fitting top mounted pocket-plates to full size tables during the 1890s. The latest example of these pockets, which I have accurately dated, was 1894. The under-frame scroll work is also indicative of an early date, this having gone out of fashion almost compltely by 1900. Unfortunately BOTH the makers' name-plates fixed to the table are later than this, and so must relate to later work done.

Padmore's "Premier" cushions were renamed the "Premier Championship" after the company supplied the table for the 1909 Professional Billiards Championship. However, I can push this date even further back as this style of logo (with the "P" wrapping the rest of the name) does not appear until 1928. So the table plate must be after this, probably 1930s, or perhaps even later.

The Riley makers' plate dates from after 1902, when they opened the London showroom, and in my opinion is the earlier of the two. I wouldn't be surprised to find that a close examination reveals this to be made from ivory, in which case it could also be dated to before about 1916, which is realistically the last date they would have fixed an ivory plate to a cushion. If it is plastic, then it would be post-war.

The crest is interesting. To me, it seems to be a bit light on heraldic symbols to be anything other than decorative work, but it shows that the table was somewhere up the range from the basic model.

[spill]

Thanks for the replies really appreciated, have played it for over 14 years and never really took much notice of the table, attached a few more photos and removed cushions, slates are about 3" thick, yes pockets are hard work