Handicapping procedure Open / Handicap events

[stanzischke@gmail.com]

Please help our club,we have only a handful of reasonable players but the handicaps are out of control. Having to give 60 to 80 start regularly
is a common occurrence and this is stymieing the whole clubs positive play that is 60 handicappers playing safety shots. .Any proven handicapping systems most welcome.

[snookerdad]

If these competitions are regular, the best thing to do is change the handicaps after each event depending on results. What we have found is that coming up with a mathematical formula that is balanced works. And it's transparent, which is half the battle.

One aspect that better players struggle with is that handicaps level the playing field. In other words, every player should win roughly half their matches - no matter how good or bad they are. I find that the better players assume they should win more.

We run two handicapped competitions every week. One is for money. Players lose one point off their handicap for every £10 won and get a point back if they don't win any money. The important thing is that the points lost and the points won are equal.

The other is for ranking points. Players gain ranking points for each match won. So we have a clever spreadsheet that adds together all the ranking points won, divides the total by the number of entries to find the average points won and then changes players' handicaps either up or down by half the difference between the rankings points they collected and the average.

Although allocating handicaps for new players involves a bit of calculated guess work, everything always levels out after a few weeks.

Tim Dunkley (World Snooker coach)

[inevermissblue]

Oh my! Here's what you should do! Before the game gets destroyed.

Anyone who played with a handicap, award them all the 1st frame of a best of 5! If they win that match then great. They will get a worthy result and the consolation being that the natural flow of that match won't have been marred, by some kamikaze scoreboard warrior, taking on all 1/10 shots safe in the knowledge that they have a substantial cushion.
This would of course encourage those players to improve. So that they might discard the helping hand in future.
It makes me laugh the difference in attitudes towards golf and snooker. Golfers strive to reduce their handicap...whereas snooker players try to increase theirs!

Also, if a plate comp is ran for first round losers, then this should be off scratch!

[jack_dougles]

I think any handicap system will stifle a players desire to either improve or play proper snooker, the high handicapper is too keen to defend his start and therefore plays very negatively quite happy to have colours on cushions and refuse even simple positional shots, the better play then gets dragged into a negative mindset of not willing to take a risk and be reluctant to get balls of cushions or try and build a break as worried about leaving opponent who already has a big start an easy chance, I personally think a good way of leveling the playing field is to play off levels and then add start on at end of frame as good player can have a bit more freedom to play a normal frame and high handicapper will be forced into taking a few more risks, ultimately the higher handicapper will improve and develop his game and the better player can enjoy his game a bit more, of course you could just play of levels and reward the lad who as maybe tried to improve as a player with practice and dedication rather than penalise him. think anything above 40 start is absurd and if you need more than that then you should maybe think of playing darts or dominoes instead

[Shockerz]

I think any handicap system will stifle a players desire to either improve or play proper snooker, the high handicapper is too keen to defend his start and therefore plays very negatively quite happy to have colours on cushions and refuse even simple positional shots, the better play then gets dragged into a negative mindset of not willing to take a risk and be reluctant to get balls of cushions or try and build a break as worried about leaving opponent who already has a big start an easy chance, I personally think a good way of leveling the playing field is to play off levels and then add start on at end of frame as good player can have a bit more freedom to play a normal frame and high handicapper will be forced into taking a few more risks, ultimately the higher handicapper will improve and develop his game and the better player can enjoy his game a bit more, of course you could just play of levels and reward the lad who as maybe tried to improve as a player with practice and dedication rather than penalise him. think anything above 40 start is absurd and if you need more than that then you should maybe think of playing darts or dominoes instead

I have a problem in our club now where the high handicappers mess the colours up each time they get a red and no position. I've got league players in our club comps I have to give a major start to that run the black and blue up the wrong end asap.

I played one player who I had to give a 45 start to who was cocky and rude with it, he knocked a 30 break in to add to it and some other colours whilst chastising to others that I can't be that good. I needed 7 snookers that frame and would never dream of carrying on but did and got them all but still needed all the colours but failed on the pink. In the next 2 frames he couldn't pot a ball as mentally exhausted, wasn't so cocky then and certainly didn't like being out safetied!

None of the match was in good spirit and some high handicappers don't want to get too good as they lose their handicap, that I can handle, but be nice about it!

[jrc750]

In our league the highest start anyone gets is 35.
These 60, 70 and 80 starts people mention are just too much, if you are that bad you are not ready to enter competitions yet

[Shockerz]

In our league the highest start anyone gets is 35.
These 60, 70 and 80 starts people mention are just too much, if you are that bad you are not ready to enter competitions yet

I remember getting a 70 start in the Portsmouth knockout years ago and lost 3-0. It was my first year and I though what a mistake they'd made with the handicap; I was only early 20's, thought I could play a bit and grew up that day!

[inevermissblue]

All I want to see is a club with big enough nadgers to implement this 1 frame head start in comps. For all the ex-handicappers! Because lets face it. This is a game based on individual ability! So when do we get to see these peoples abilities when they are constantly being nursed in and out of the game!
Giving them the 1st frame has a level of embarrassment about it, and so it should! They need to learn to learn!!! While allowing the competent player to play the natural game.

This is the way forward imho.

[Shockerz]

All I want to see is a club with big enough nadgers to implement this 1 frame head start in comps. For all the ex-handicappers! Because lets face it. This is a game based on individual ability! So when do we get to see these peoples abilities when they are constantly being nursed in and out of the game!
Giving them the 1st frame has a level of embarrassment about it, and so it should! They need to learn to learn!!! While allowing the competent player to play the natural game.

This is the way forward imho.

Trouble is, I bet the majority of players skills levels are between the really good players and awful. In the smaller clubs (like mine and there are many) the snooker is mainly social and only serious to the better players. Because the club ethos is for all we run scratch and handicap tournaments to suit all otherwise there's too much crying from the lesser guys which is the majority.

But yeah, a real pain....

[Cannonball]

Snookerdad talks sense. Our league has limited HCs to 52 (based on factors of 4). I think a nearby club runs a max start of 21 for comps but there are no league players at that club so the standard is woodpusher and advanced woodpusher :biggrin-new: much easier to HC! Cttee reduced the starts in league because players were taking advantage and playing negative snooker, pot red, pot black, safety. Or, pot red, tuck the black up! :biggrin-new:

What the better players have to accept and be grateful for, is that the lesser players won't improve much, that's their level. Without these folk there won't be the numbers or pot for a comp; they're not going to enter to simply lose their dosh every time; they need the incentive of a 50/50 as snookerdad points out. Giving them a frame and making them play off scratch for the other 4 frames (INMB) ain't gonna get them through the door. Without the advanced woodpushers, league snooker would end tomorrow and every club would close and the sport would die because they don't just make up the overwhelming majority of snooker players, they are most of the audience at events as well. So be careful who you disparage, they're keeping your sport alive.

[jack_dougles]

think we all agree that a handicap system is needed trouble is not always that the lesser players get too high a start its that some supposed better players are sometimes handicapped lower than they actually should be, as someone pointed out about golfers wanting their handicap as low as possible some snooker lads just as happy to play off handicap that is lwer than they can actually manage, ego is a bitch sometimes

[Londonlad147]

The important thing is that the points lost and the points won are equal.

I presume by that you mean that the total points in the system (ie the total of everyone's handicaps remains the same - for a given number of players). That really is important, otherwise, if you get it wrong, you'll find that the majority of players' handicaps are going up and just a few (those who do well) are going down, such that after a few events there are a lot of high handicappers and very few low ones. We learned that lesson in our club about 20-odd years ago!

[Londonlad147]

think we all agree that a handicap system is needed trouble is not always that the lesser players get too high a start its that some supposed better players are sometimes handicapped lower than they actually should be, as someone pointed out about golfers wanting their handicap as low as possible some snooker lads just as happy to play off handicap that is lwer than they can actually manage, ego is a bitch sometimes

The biggest problem at club level is that maybe 10% play to a certain high standard just about every match, and 10% are inevitably crap every match. The other 80% are inconsistent, and can vary from playing out of their skins to being down their with the highest handicappers. That really does make it difficult to allocate handicaps.

However, if you have regular events and change the handicaps after every event (eg up three points for a loss, down three for a win, or level for a draw (in our league)) then, over time, the handicaps should find an appropriate level for each player.

[inevermissblue]

i weep for the future.

[itsnoteasy]

Our club the most you can get is 14, so if you have just picked up a cue that day and get drawn against one of the few that have had multiple 147s you get a 14 start.