cue arm&shoulder

[tedisbill]

Anybody......?

[Terry Davidson]

My answer would be the grip shoulder should not be visible behind the head when in the address position. This does NOT come from twisting the back though which (depending on your age) as you could do yourself some harm by over-twisting the spine.

Where it comes from is the hips and the bent left leg. You should bend your forward leg enough so the hips are at an angle and this angle or close to it probably can be easily done with the shoulders although in thinking about it I think the shoulder will twist a bit more to get the right shoulder up high and behind the head, so you will be twisting the spin a touch.

But the real 'secret' of this (look at head-on address shots of the pros and you'll see their grip shoulder is well hidden in most cases) is to bend that forward leg as much as you comfortably can as this has the added bonus of getting your chest down to the cue and also give more stability and all that is besides getting the grip shoulder into alignment.

Terry

[CoachGavin]

cue arm&shoulder

tedisbill. There are professionals who play like you but far more and the top ones play with near perfect alignment. I believe if the elbow is in line with the cue and head then it is easier to cue straight. If the elbow does not line up directly then the body is always fighting a battle to keep everything online. This is because with this setup the elbow and grip have a natural tendency to pull the cue offline. hope that answers your question.

[tedisbill]

Cheers Gavin. Yes that makes sense.

I'm definitely gonna stick with this new setup now. Can't hurt to have everything in line properly.

[itsnoteasy]

i checked my arm in the mirror, if i raise it naturally, i could see merely the elbow and a bit of my arm, while i could see the elbow and most of my back arm if i were to raise it as high as possible.

but i suppose the first scenario is good enough?

Before someone does themselves an injury, if you are checking yourself front on in a mirror, you won't see much, if any of your arm and elbow, it's just because of the position of your eyes, as they have to look up, and your head is in the way. That's if you are close to the mirror say within three feet, I only know this as I check myself in one from that distance.

[hsn]

Hi tedisbill
I'm playing snooker since 1991. What I have learned through my experience and many years of research and practice is summarized as follows:

As the game of snooker is pure technique, get it right and the rest follows "AUTOMATICALLY"!!!

The technique is to bring the cue straight through the shot when striking which is of course a very complex set of movements that we cannot fully control in real time unless we have either a perfect alignment or groove in any suitable alignment with diligent practice.

I firmly believe that the earlier is easier and far reaching! And there comes a point, when you have acquired a perfect alignment, that your shoulder gets locked in line with the shot and you even surprize yourself by how in the world you are making the hardest of the pots in no time!

IT IS ALMOST A SECRET!!!

The pros who have a better alignment than the others are observed to pot more consistently as long as their alignment remains correct. While most of the pros are seen with this alignment in some of their shots but Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry and recently Judd Trump, Mark Selby and Shaun Murphy are observed to have a perfect alignment in more than 60% of their shots.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...mp_242150c.jpg

http://www.oocities.org/wysin/German/sight.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...55_634x463.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...91_634x485.jpg



The perfect alignment keeps the cue straight though the delivery with no conscious effort.

To do this alignment:

You have to raise your shoulder as far as the upper arm along with the shoulder is aligned with the cue. "You may need to move the tip of the elbow slightly out if you are doing this" to avoid what John Higgins is doing here
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...ggins--001.jpg

Steve Davis loses the perfect alignment in this shothttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...u,_Finland.jpg

lost alignment http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...3-01-30_06.jpg

The trick is to get down to the shot in such a way that your bridge hand shoulder is as close to the bed as it can be and the cue hand shoulder is raised as high upward as it can go. Use a mirror set up in front to practice this. This is easily achievable with a boxer stance than a square on stance.

You may also notice that even the pros that I've mentioned above are not able to maintain the perfect alignment consistently.

In contrast look at the Terry Davidson's shoulder to the elbow section which makes a zigzag shape with the cue (Not to discredit Terry in any sense of the letter whatsoever!)

Many Pro coaches would argue with my opinion but it's not just my opinion. One must be willing to sacrifice his present alignment technique, loose his game for a while and endure some mild shoulder pain (for a few days) in order to learn the new one. But rest assured it is worth it!

Anybody......?

[Ramon]

Hi tedisbill
I'm playing snooker since 1991. What I have learned through my experience and many years of research and practice is summarized as follows:

As the game of snooker is pure technique, get it right and the rest follows "AUTOMATICALLY"!!!

The technique is to bring the cue straight through the shot when striking which is of course a very complex set of movements that we cannot fully control in real time unless we have either a perfect alignment or groove in any suitable alignment with diligent practice.

I firmly believe that the earlier is easier and far reaching! And there comes a point, when you have acquired a perfect alignment, that your shoulder gets locked in line with the shot and you even surprize yourself by how in the world you are making the hardest of the pots in no time!

IT IS ALMOST A SECRET!!!

The pros who have a better alignment than the others are observed to pot more consistently as long as their alignment remains correct. While most of the pros are seen with this alignment in some of their shots but Steve Davis, Stephen Hendry and recently Judd Trump, Mark Selby and Shaun Murphy are observed to have a perfect alignment in more than 60% of their shots.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multim...mp_242150c.jpg

http://www.oocities.org/wysin/German/sight.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...55_634x463.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/...91_634x485.jpg



The perfect alignment keeps the cue straight though the delivery with no conscious effort.

To do this alignment:

You have to raise your shoulder as far as the upper arm along with the shoulder is aligned with the cue. "You may need to move the tip of the elbow slightly out if you are doing this" to avoid what John Higgins is doing here
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...ggins--001.jpg

Steve Davis loses the perfect alignment in this shothttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...u,_Finland.jpg

lost alignment http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...3-01-30_06.jpg

The trick is to get down to the shot in such a way that your bridge hand shoulder is as close to the bed as it can be and the cue hand shoulder is raised as high upward as it can go. Use a mirror set up in front to practice this. This is easily achievable with a boxer stance than a square on stance.

You may also notice that even the pros that I've mentioned above are not able to maintain the perfect alignment consistently.

In contrast look at the Terry Davidson's shoulder to the elbow section which makes a zigzag shape with the cue (Not to discredit Terry in any sense of the letter whatsoever!)

Many Pro coaches would argue with my opinion but it's not just my opinion. One must be willing to sacrifice his present alignment technique, loose his game for a while and endure some mild shoulder pain (for a few days) in order to learn the new one. But rest assured it is worth it!

I hope you do'nt mind me asking this. May i ask what you mean by : (( get it right and the rest follows "AUTOMATICALLY"!!! )) ????

[Terry Davidson]

I've always said to get the bridge arm shoulder down as close to the table as possible (by bending the knee as much as possible) and this will have the effect of getting the grip arm shoulder up as high as possible and into alignment with the line of aim.

HOWEVER, there's a big BUT to this...from personal experience I've found most players over 40yrs or so just do not have the flexibility in the spine to achieve this and could do themselves harm by trying to duplicate what the 20-some year old pros are doing.

The bottom line is get the grip arm shoulder up as high as you COMFORTABLY can but whatever you do DO NOT introduce discomfort into your set-up

Terry

[tedisbill]

No matter how much I try to get my shoulder hidden behind my head I just can't do it????

Can't do it with my normal square stance, and I can't do it with the boxer stance.

If I stand up straight and look in the mirror, I can do it. As soon as I get down into a stance, I can't do it!!!

So frustrating. What's the problem?

[j6uk]

No matter how much I try to get my shoulder hidden behind my head I just can't do it????

Can't do it with my normal square stance, and I can't do it with the boxer stance.

If I stand up straight and look in the mirror, I can do it. As soon as I get down into a stance, I can't do it!!!

So frustrating. What's the problem?

nothing, just cue straight. i think people who say you need to hide something have something to hide

[tedisbill]

nothing, just cue straight. i think people who say you need to hide something have something to hide

Cheers J6. That's good to hear.

[Terry Davidson]

No matter how much I try to get my shoulder hidden behind my head I just can't do it????

Can't do it with my normal square stance, and I can't do it with the boxer stance.

If I stand up straight and look in the mirror, I can do it. As soon as I get down into a stance, I can't do it!!!

So frustrating. What's the problem?

As I said on my previous post some players do not have the flexibility in the spine to achieve hiding the grip arm shoulder completely behind the head although most of the pros do have theirs hidden.

If you think about it, if you bend the front leg enough so you get the armpit on that side down to the table you MAY have a 30* slope in the hips to the horizontal. In order to hide the grip arm shoulder behind the head the shoulders will be around 70* from the horizontal which means you must be able to get around a 40* twist in the spine. Some players are just not capable of achieving this without discomfort.

My suggestion is to do the best you can without doing yourself any harm by causing discomfort and then as J6 says, learn to cue straight. If you can get the elbow right over the cue then cueing straight should not be a problem even if the shoulder is slightly outside the head.

Terry

[hsn]

My pleasure Ramon. Get your alignment right and the consistency of your pots increases automatically to such an extent that often you astonish yourself!

I hope you do'nt mind me asking this. May i ask what you mean by : (( get it right and the rest follows "AUTOMATICALLY"!!! )) ????

[hsn]

My pleasure Ramon. If you can get your alignment right the consistency of your pots improves automatically with out worrying so much about trying to keep the cue straight during the delivery.

I hope you do'nt mind me asking this. May i ask what you mean by : (( get it right and the rest follows "AUTOMATICALLY"!!! )) ????

[tedisbill]

I think I've figured out the problem I've got.

If I do it left handed, I can achieve the alignment no problem. Right handed though, I just can't seem to get my shoulder behind my head.

I injured my shoulder last year (badly damaged a tendon), and it took over 12 months to mend. Well, basically, I think I've got a bit of restricted movement in that shoulder now. It just doesn't seem to want to tuck behind my head as easily as my left one.