Terry's Technique Video

[choice]

Terry, I.M.H.O. I think your stance needs to be 2inches further to the left.(left leg wider)

It looks like an alignment issue Terry.
I think your stance isn't wide enough, left foot needs to be wider and further forward to bring the body around to get the elbow more behind the line of aim. This will bring your stance to one where the chest isn't in the way of the follow through at all and the left eye will drop naturally over the line of aim without you having to turn your head.

Also what were you looking at when doing this exercise ?
It looks like you are looking at the cue ball when getting down into your stance but focussing on a target at the moment of the strike.
You yourself state that looking at the object ball (target) when getting down into the stance is the right way to go but you don't seem to be doing it yourself.

:snooker::snooker::snooker::snooker::snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

I believe the coaching training I received was very good and helped me to understand snooker a lot better. The problem is I don't think anyone can coach themselves effectively. In addition I think it's much better to get some formal instruction to become a coach and good players should not be just going around touting themselves as a coach.

For one thing, they need to learn how to impart their knowledge effectively and there is no guarantee every good player can do this effectively either.

Terry

[j6uk]

I looked for that video for you because I thought it really underlined the importance of the bridge. I'm not titling myself as a coach, looking for work or looking for thanks as such 'though it would be nice, but what did you make of it?
Regardless, titles, tshirts and thousands of pouds spent on two day courses to be 'qualified' and I agree not ever person who can play a bit can communicate their knowledge. Don't you think its more beneficial and wouldn't you like to be helped yourself by a someone with experience, that's been a decent player, who can spot and resolve problems and articulates well?

j6uk:

I believe the coaching training I received was very good and helped me to understand snooker a lot better. The problem is I don't think anyone can coach themselves effectively. In addition I think it's much better to get some formal instruction to become a coach and good players should not be just going around touting themselves as a coach.

For one thing, they need to learn how to impart their knowledge effectively and there is no guarantee every good player can do this effectively either.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

You are 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here'. I KNOW how important a solid bridge is and doubt if I need a reminder. I have a very solid bridge and that is not the reason my body is moving right and also my grip hand is moving to the right.

Besides, my master coach training was a total of 12 days (in 2 separate sessions) with Nic Barrow and in addition another 5 days with Wayne and Terry Griffiths along with B&SCC coach training years ago now with Jack Karnhem. I am not a 'two day wonder'.

Your assessment that all my problems are due to an unstable bridge I believe is not correct as I have purposely gripped the cloth hard over the past 6 days just to check and see if you could possibly be right, but I've proven to myself that my bridge is not the root cause of my technique flaws which are something that's built up over the past 4 or 5 years since I returned to playing.

Terry


Terry

[j6uk]

Yeah I can see that.
Okay, well, to get back to the video. To not see your bridge as a serious flaw I can comment no more. But I will leave it at this: Look at it again, (If this for medical reasons excuse me) but apart from playing the piano when your hand hits the table your bridge was lifting by half an inch or so on impacting the white.
I am not saying that's the only thing wrong, obviously not but because you didn't accept your dodgy bridge to be a flaw, I couldn't move on..

Anyway, I look forwards to seeing you in action again on a cross or a lineup to see how you really play enjoy

j6uk:

You are 'teaching your grandmother to suck eggs here'. I KNOW how important a solid bridge is and doubt if I need a reminder. I have a very solid bridge and that is not the reason my body is moving right and also my grip hand is moving to the right.

Besides, my master coach training was a total of 12 days (in 2 separate sessions) with Nic Barrow and in addition another 5 days with Wayne and Terry Griffiths along with B&SCC coach training years ago now with Jack Karnhem. I am not a 'two day wonder'.

Your assessment that all my problems are due to an unstable bridge I believe is not correct as I have purposely gripped the cloth hard over the past 6 days just to check and see if you could possibly be right, but I've proven to myself that my bridge is not the root cause of my technique flaws which are something that's built up over the past 4 or 5 years since I returned to playing.

Terry


Terry

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

I just checked the video and I might have spotted something but I'm not sure that's what you are talking about. Can you answer the following 2 questions please:

1. Where is this bridge movement taking place, before feathering, during feathering, during backswing or during delivery; and,
2. Exactly what is moving that 1/2"? Is it the 'V' of the bridge, the base of the thumb, the back of the palm or the tips of the fingers? (I know when I'm really concentrating the tips of the fingers waggle but the fat pad of the fingers stay locked to the table).

Thanks,
Terry

[j6uk]

Your fingers are moving up and oddly side to side so, there was a bit of a jig going on.
Yes check the v in relation to the baulk cush on impact.

Your welcom

j6uk:

I just checked the video and I might have spotted something but I'm not sure that's what you are talking about. Can you answer the following 2 questions please:

1. Where is this bridge movement taking place, before feathering, during feathering, during backswing or during delivery; and,
2. Exactly what is moving that 1/2"? Is it the 'V' of the bridge, the base of the thumb, the back of the palm or the tips of the fingers? (I know when I'm really concentrating the tips of the fingers waggle but the fat pad of the fingers stay locked to the table).

Thanks,
Terry

[humperdingle]

Your fingers are moving up and oddly side to side so, there was a bit of a jig going on.
Yes check the v in relation to the baulk cush on impact.

Your welcom

Must admit i've never seen a bridge hand quite so 'mobile'. Some pros you see doing the little finger flick, but not like Terry's.

[itsnoteasy]

j6uk:

I just checked the video and I might have spotted something but I'm not sure that's what you are talking about. Can you answer the following 2 questions please:

1. Where is this bridge movement taking place, before feathering, during feathering, during backswing or during delivery; and,
2. Exactly what is moving that 1/2"? Is it the 'V' of the bridge, the base of the thumb, the back of the palm or the tips of the fingers? (I know when I'm really concentrating the tips of the fingers waggle but the fat pad of the fingers stay locked to the table).

Thanks,
Terry

It's your thumb that moves by the looks of it Terry, I can't tell if its before or after strike, but I wouldn't want it doing this at any time, tell you what though I bet if we forensically looked at all our cue actions like we are with yours there would be problems to be found, were you struggling before you posted? or playing alright?

[j6uk]

Again this is unusual. Is there a reason or this is the way you were coached?

j6uk:
(I know when I'm really concentrating the tips of the fingers waggle but the fat pad of the fingers stay locked to the table).

Thanks,
Terry

[chrissmall147]

Hi terry

I still cant get in to see your video for some reason ive been trying loads of different things and I also have a guy from china to look at and cant get in to his videos either so im pretty peeved at the moment. Anyway can you please try this and see how you get on. Try the boxer stance with the heel on the line of aim or even slightly outside the line of aim. When you get down to your stance twist your left knee to the right so as your hips turn slightly. You should feel that you are leaning into the shot instead of away from the shot and are rock solid. Try and relax on the shot as from the video of you and nic there was a bit of grimacing going on which can cause movement in the body.this will also cause movement in the shoulder area and you dont want this to happen. I believe in straight lines at this game so work hard on getting that elbow straight and getting it in line with the shot and this will help the delivery. A slight roll of the shoulder normally corrects this. Lastly I cant help thinking that you grip too tight before impact which can cause slight movement outwards so try and stay as loose as you can until you have struck the cue ball and tighten up nearer the chest if possible. This is definitely the last thing terry. Last resort try this. When finding the line of aim just concentrate on central body position and forget about the feet. Let them go where you feel comfortable and natural without thinking about it. I think this could help your delivery as you are central to the shot and bang on line. This is what I had to do later in my career and my foot was a mile outside the line of aim but as long as I was centre body to the line of aim I was cueing straight and didnt care where my feet where. Then I won the lg cup playing the best snooker of my life. You can only try things out terry and see how you get on. Hope some of this helps mate. Good luck.

Cheers Chris small

[alabadi]

Hi Terry

its mighty brave of you to put up a video and ask others to analyse it, as yourself do for us, being a coach yourself it shows a lot of guts and a will to keep on learning.

i myself a teacher always believe in life long learning, and nobody is too old to learn.

i took a look at your video and uploaded it to Kinovea i then placed four lines one directly dissecting the cue ball vertically, the other three horizontally, one obove your head one above your knuckles and the other above your thumb, the last three were done once you were down in the address position. i then slowed the video down to 5% original speed and here is what i observed.

1- When you are standing your nose is bang in the middle of the cueball the line splits your nose in two so you are on the line of aim., however as you are getting down you move your head to the right and eventually you end up with your left eye in line with the cueball. so the line now runs through the cueball along your cue and through your left eye.

2- as you are feathering you lower your head, this continues until you strike the cueball, the movement is straight down but by the time you strike the cueball its at least a couple of inches lower.

3- your thumb similar to the head drops a bit, very slightly but does drop until you strike the cueball. it then raises up again, however the majority of the movement is after the cueball has gone.

4- your knuckles stay level no movement there, however when you are moving your fingers, (which is quite a lot) there is slight movement from the last two knuckles which is understandable.

conclusion

i am no coach (maybe one day who knows) but i think you might not be on the line of aim but to the right of it which might explain why you cue from right to left.

your elbow is again right to the line of aim, not sure if this makes a lot of difference especially if you cue straight. however as Chris Small said better if it was all in a line, so maybe something to look at.

i think if your nose was on the line of aim you would naturally be more over to the left which would bring your elbow closer to the line of aim.

i myself have similar issues to you Terry and you have advised me on this issue your self, you told me to loosen my grip so it doesn't close until the fist hits the chest, easier said than done but i'm getting there.

I hope you eventually get solutions to your problems and would love to hear how you solved them, because i have similar ones myself.

good luck in your qualifiers

Alabbadi

[Sidd]

Sidd:

The video is still there and it's just been yourself and Chris Small who can't see it. As Pakistan is barred from youtube maybe it's the same thing with other public video sites. I'm not sure why Chris can't load it but he seems to be getting the same result as you are.

The thing that was troublesome was the video is about 88Mb and because I'm on a wireless broadband service it took about 15mins to upload as my speed is so slow compared to what I would get if I lived in a town or city. We were supposed to get fiber this summer but nothing so far. This is why I don't load any videos.

Terry

It is not barred, like youtube, in Pakistan as the page loads. If it were, it would not have even loaded. Anyway, i tried again today no luck but then tried to download it and it worked. I have the video now and will comment in a bit.

[Sidd]

Dear Terry,

I am your student so it is not really up to me to comment on your technique in the first place. However, sometimes we cannot see the flaws in our technique on our own unless someone else points them out to us given that one cant really find mistakes in one's own work by one's own self easily. Therefore, my feeble, not so good, worthy of ignoring suggestive points are submitted here-under:

1. The bridge; yes you have pointed it out yourself, just turning it by the wrist a little to the left thereby bringing more forefinger is the correct answer. ronnie does it to a very pronounced extent. I am a tall person and i have noticed that it I try to keep my bridge arm straight enough I cant naturally keep my bridge hand wrist straight as it comes at an angle to the arm (wrist being the fulcrum). therefore, for me, naturally I have a tendency to keep the bridge hand inwards because it is connected to the bridge arm and hence keeping it inwards means more comfort and stability. The bridge arm is not 100% parallel to the line of shot and comes in at a slight angle right so keep the bridge hand a bit inwards ... from the eye perspective it will seem crossed or at an angle and not absolutely straight. That is the way to go ... for me at least.

2. Are you not hitting with a bit of more pace than required ??? Or shall I say just a tiny bit accelerating too early ??? I think that might be the case. When I play and after the back pause we get taught by you and others of the like to start the delivery slowly and then build up the pace however with your delivery it seems sudden, if not abrupt. (you cant see the CB hitting the top cush in this video however on all shots I can HEAR the CB hitting the top cush and jumping a tiny bit upon return. If you concentrate on the sound of the CB hitting the cush you can hear two sounds i.e. CB hitting the cush ... jumping... hitting the bed of the table)... Just a thought !

3. Accidental side as well as elbow out; well i think both of these are connected. If not connected, my suggestive for correction is the one which might get both tuned up, with a singular correction. Since the elbow is a bit out and stays out even after delivery (unlike Hendry who used to have it out but it came back in upon dropping at the end of the delivery). Since it is out and remains out and if you cue straight in this manner you are destined to put that tiny bit of right hand side to the CB. actually I used ot have this problem too long ago and worked on it on my own and sorted it out myself. I might be totally wrong here and please do correct me if I am however I still do impart some left hand side (being a lefty) if I am not careful about something I am going to narrate for you here. You only need to correct that elbow a bit and the accidental side will go away. While down just tuck that right shoulder of yours a tiny bit inside the shoulder joint (I hope I am able to explain my point properly) what I mean is that the shoulder is left at east and drifts away a bit from the joint so when down just try and sort of tuck it in towards the shoulder joint .... however the key here is not to move the elbow in trying to do so forget about the elbow .. it is the shoulder joint and has to be corrected from the shoulder joint. Just try this out and I am pretty confident you will notice immediate results.

This is what i saw and felt. Forgive me if I said something wrong or idiotic ...

Regards,
Sidd.

[Terry Davidson]

Thank you all for your comments. There were a lot of valid ones and I tried them all but without much success. I have tried to quiet down the finger waggling and the bridge thumb moving during the delivery, which has seemed to help.

HOWEVER, JUST YESTERDAY I FOUND WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS AND CORRECTED IT RIGHT THERE AND THEN. I started making everything and I know it's really STUPID as I have talked about this on here and yet I YET AGAIN failed to follow my own advice. As it happened I had the Trump/Dott match on while I was practicing and for some reason I noticed neither of them dropped their elbow on delivery except if it was a massive power shot whereas for the past 7 years for some reason I've been dropping my elbow on almost every shot, no matter what the power.

On here where we all talked about the elbow drop (like ROS and Murphy) I said only if a player learned the game at a young age and started with an elbow drop should he use it. If (like me) you didn't start with an elbow drop at 10yrs old then don't introduce it as it won't be natural to you and for some reason it's very difficult for an adult to change over to an elbow drop type of technique.

So I checked out some more pro videos (I have a bunch of DVDs here from Nic Barrow where he analyses all of the top pros using Dartfish) and with just a few exceptions none of the top players drop their elbows when playing shots at medium pace or below. All of the pros who do use the elbow drop were those that started playing when they were very young.

I took another look at my video as posted and then I did another video of myself while keeping the elbow as stable as possible and as I have Dartfish here I did an overlap of the two videos and right away it was obvious on the posted video my upper body moved to the right and my cue moved over to the left side of the chin (even though the cue stayed on the line of aim pretty well) and of course my right hand went flying right (which is actually me being unable to drop the elbow straight down like ROS or Murphy).

On the video I just took yesterday where I was trying to limit the elbow drop as much as possible it appears I still get virtually the same amount of follow through and with the correct grip I can still get similar power (meaning acceleration) as long as I keep the backswing nice and slow and its length proportional to the power I want, which in this case was over 4 lengths of the table.

I am finding though that since I've been dropping my elbow since 2005 when I returned to the game this is a VERY HARD habit to break but I'm going to work on it hard over the next couple of months since with not dropping the elbow my potting, and especially my long potting with power, has gotten MUCH more accurate.

When I'm able to master removing the elbow drop there is NO sideways slide to the right on my upper body and everything remains rock solid and also of course there's no way my grip hand flies to the right after the strike. I am not cueing right-to-left any more and I'm really happy with what I'm doing now.

I posted that video because I was extremely frustrated as I was playing so badly and have been for the past 7 years compared to how I played in the 80's and early 90's. I was looking at some action shots from those days and of course I wasn't dropping the elbow (go figure!).

Once I get this mastered I will post another video for comparison purposes but I can't promise any specific length of time as this is going to take A LOT OF WORK. (Even though I say you should not copy any specific pro I have decided I want to deliver the cue exactly like Judd Trump only right-handed.)

Terry