STAR Academy... Pottr's perspective

[pottr]

I have trouble clearing the line up but would know your lads game, ability and faults after half an hour of close observation. You don't need to be a top century break player to coach, just the nous to spot faults and show what you're teaching, words are not enough, especially for children.

Please don't take offence, because I like you... But if you can't clear the lineout or make a century break, you can't be taken seriously if you wish to call yourself an authority on snooker... In my opinion.

As for the Latvian coach who had trouble speaking english, sounds like a day at work for me trying to get the poles to do their jobs and being met with blank faces, sign of the times I fear.

Precisely. I'm not being racist pointing that out... it was just difficult and a plain fact.

I'd ask for my money back.

We got everything we paid for... It just wasn't of the quality I expected.

Why go there anyway pottr ?

Because I was led to believe after conversations that it would be structured practice. That he'd be playing with kids his own age in an environment where they would (I hoped) all be striving to improve and compete with each other to improve the most... Focussed practice with common goals.

What did you expect Luke to learn that you couldn't show him and teach him yourself with a table at home ?

If I took the week off work to devote the same time to Luke, it would have cost me more money than it was to send him there.

Do you really expect these coaches to know more than you?

In terms of technique and knowledge of shots... No. But, I assumed that the coaches the kids would be getting would be the same sort of standard of coach that players on the tour who reside there would be getting... That Luke would be given insight on how to apply himself, to focus and what it's needed to dedicate yourself to the game and instil the value of practice and the importance of practice to him... That is knowledge I do not possess... I have not mentored any players to play snooker all day... I have no experience of this.

This is what I hoped Luke's week away would bring him... A resolution in his need to improve... But instead I get the impression they were just left to their own devices...

Shame.

[Erwan_BZH]

Looks very disappointing for the huge amount you paid....I mean £600 is no joke. for that rate you expect good quality coaching but above all a fine supervision of your kid. We're not talking teens here but kids really.

[jrc750]

I would complain direct, what have you to lose ??

[Burnpark]

Real shame as this looks like a great idea. Surprised more clubs don't hold academy sessions for all ages. Even 2-3 hours a week, most golf clubs offer group coaching so why not snooker?

[thommo335]

STAR Academy... Pottr's perspective

I thought a line out was an egg chasing method of getting a non round ball complicatedly back into play.......I'm at the academy next Thursday for a day.....will report back. if the coaches make me do line outs though I'm asking for my money back as I don't want a bunch of egg chasers trying to lift me up by the knackers to catch a ball.

[bolton-cueman]

Del Hill is by no means a ton maker but there's no denying he's a good coach. The myth that you have to be an excellent payer to be a coach will never go away....

[vmax4steve]

Please don't take offence, because I like you... But if you can't clear the lineout or make a century break, you can't be taken seriously if you wish to call yourself an authority on snooker... In my opinion.

Don't take offence because I like you, but you're wrong. I can clear the line up, just not on demand as I'm inconsistant. I have only ever made one ton in practise; but I digress, you don't need to be a regular ton maker to be a coach or to know the game, Ive never claimed to be an authority on snooker, would you take your lad to Clive Everton for coaching

What a coach needs is to be able to know the basics of the game, of hand/eye co-ordination, to spot flaws in those basics and be able to get across to a student why these basics are important and instill that belief.
That's something I can do very well, I watch good players closely and all have these same basics in place, I also watch poor players closely and see that these basics are missing, I also watch inconsistant players closely and see those basics flit in and out of the players game.

I can point things out and put them right, what else would you need from a coach, but also I don't claim to be a coach either, I don't believe in coaching, I believe that coaching is the nemesis of sport, especially in children. Children need to be taught the basics if they don't do them naturally, and then be left alone to learn for themselves.
All the sporting greats in the past were never coached, they learned their skills as boys and grew bigger, stronger, faster and more experienced.

Also do not expect your lad to have the same need and want to play snooker that you have, he may only be trying to please his dad. A structured practise environment won't be found amongs lads of the same age playing together, drinking fizzy drinks and mucking around will be prevalent among a group of ten year olds, puberty hasn't begun and the need to be dominant and to win isn't yet instilled by the onrush of testosterone, and no amount of adult supervision can alter natural biology.

You have a table at home and if your lad wants to play all the time then he can, leave him to it. I remember reading that Walter Lindrums dad refused to teach him anything and only allowed him one ball to play with for six months before introducing the other two billiard balls. Didn't do him any harm did it.

Del Hill is by no means a ton maker but there's no denying he's a good coach. The myth that you have to be an excellent payer to be a coach will never go away....

The same could be said of Frank Callan; a coach needs the ability to play the shots and prove to the student what he's teaching is correct, nothing more, he doesn't have to clear the table every time.

[Byrom]

What I don't get is you have your own table you knock in tons and stuff like me - so why not just teach him yourself?

[Leo]

What I don't get is you have your own table you knock in tons and stuff like me - so why not just teach him yourself?

I think many of us are good players but coaching is totally different, I have not got the temperament to teach anyone and would get the complete arse if they were not doing what they were told, and coaching one of your own would be very hard to stay calm imho

[ace man]

Shocking to read. If STAR Academy can be like this sometimes, imagine what goes on elsewhere.
Here's my take on coaching...
If the coach isn't a regular ton maker it shouldn't that much...provided that he is relatively old and has ton of experience coaching and many players of all levels can vouch for his expertise.
If the coach is a relatively young person, I'd expect him to be an excellent player too, no excuses.
Also, a coach better be from a country with very strong snooker tradition. How can you teach alpine skiing if you've lived most of your life in a country where snow almost never falls?

[pottr]

What I don't get is you have your own table you knock in tons and stuff like me - so why not just teach him yourself?

I'm up at 7 to sort the kids... Then I go to work.

On my break from work I pick the kids up from school and then I go back to work.

at 18:30 I finish work and go home where I make dinner, make sure the kids have their homework done and then shower or bath them before bed... Usually it's around 20:45 now... Add in all the regular chores of keeping a home and the last thing I have the patience for is to teach a kid how to play snooker... Let alone teach him about concentration and focus when all I want to do is collapse in a heap.

Don't take offence because I like you, but you're wrong. I can clear the line up, just not on demand as I'm inconsistant. I have only ever made one ton in practise; but I digress, you don't need to be a regular ton maker to be a coach or to know the game, Ive never claimed to be an authority on snooker, would you take your lad to Clive Everton for coaching

I don't get the Clive Everton reference? I remember Norman Dagley saying he was an excellent player?

Also do not expect your lad to have the same need and want to play snooker that you have, he may only be trying to please his dad. A structured practise environment won't be found amongs lads of the same age playing together, drinking fizzy drinks and mucking around will be prevalent among a group of ten year olds, puberty hasn't begun and the need to be dominant and to win isn't yet instilled by the onrush of testosterone, and no amount of adult supervision can alter natural biology.

Utter crap.
I've seen him behave normally at football when the boundaries are set... Also, I've taken large groups of kids for beginner snooker lessons at the Atack a couple of time, 20 or so spread over 8 tables and they certainly followed my lead...

You have a table at home and if your lad wants to play all the time then he can, leave him to it. I remember reading that Walter Lindrums dad refused to teach him anything and only allowed him one ball to play with for six months before introducing the other two billiard balls. Didn't do him any harm did it.

Well, if you read it then I guess it has to be true.

You're all failing to grasp what I'm saying here... You send your kids to school to learn and if the muck about they are put right... I sent my lad to this snooker school to learn and he was virtually left to his own devices...

Frank Callan and Dell Hill have both made century breaks! They are not apt examples... Next someone will bring up Alex Ferguson as not being a decent footballer... He oonly played for the biggest club in his country after all... ffs

Look, I don't care how you sugar coat it... if you think you can play every shot in the book and you can't make a ton every now and again then you simply can't play every shot in the book! Playing them once in a thousand attempts isn't the same...

[pottr]

Shocking to read. If STAR Academy can be like this sometimes, imagine what goes on elsewhere.
Here's my take on coaching...
If the coach isn't a regular ton maker it shouldn't that much...provided that he is relatively old and has ton of experience coaching and many players of all levels can vouch for his expertise.
If the coach is a relatively young person, I'd expect him to be an excellent player too, no excuses.
Also, a coach better be from a country with very strong snooker tradition. How can you teach alpine skiing if you've lived most of your life in a country where snow almost never falls?

Someone gets it!

You wouldn't take driving lessons from someone who knows how the pedals work but can't drive.

[pottr]

What a coach needs is to be able to know the basics of the game, of hand/eye co-ordination, to spot flaws in those basics and be able to get across to a student why these basics are important and instill that belief.
That's something I can do very well, I watch good players closely and all have these same basics in place, I also watch poor players closely and see that these basics are missing, I also watch inconsistant players closely and see those basics flit in and out of the players game.

Usually you just say they're not looking in the right place x

[alabadi]

Also do not expect your lad to have the same need and want to play snooker that you have, he may only be trying to please his dad. A structured practise environment won't be found amongs lads of the same age playing together, drinking fizzy drinks and mucking around will be prevalent among a group of ten year olds, puberty hasn't begun and the need to be dominant and to win isn't yet instilled by the onrush of testosterone, and no amount of adult supervision can alter natural biology.

.

i feel this is true, in terms of you can't force anyone to do a sport, in the end they have to want to do it and enjoys it. we can point them in the right direction and hope that they will take it up, but they have to want to do it too.

i took my kid to a boxing club when he was 8-9 years old and for the next 5-6 years spent thousands in terms of equipment and club fees..etc...etc, he was quite decent and won many amateur bouts. potentially the trainer thought he could be something when he grew up, however when he turned 14 lost all interest and wanted to play football. he practically packed it in overnight.

[vmax4steve]

Usually you just say they're not looking in the right place x

That's the most basic fundamental of all hand eye games, that's where I always start. You'd be surprised how straight a cue action becomes when this is adhered to.

i feel this is true, in terms of you can't force anyone to do a sport, in the end they have to want to do it and enjoys it. we can point them in the right direction and hope that they will take it up, but they have to want to do it too.

i took my kid to a boxing club when he was 8-9 years old and for the next 5-6 years spent thousands in terms of equipment and club fees..etc...etc, he was quite decent and won many amateur bouts. potentially the trainer thought he could be something when he grew up, however when he turned 14 lost all interest and wanted to play football. he practically packed it in overnight.

I was the same Alabadi, my old man was an army boxing champion and took me to the local club when I was a lad. I learned how to box but when it came right down to it I was unable to hit the other lads I'd become friends with, with any kind of force; speed ball and bag I was fine but sparring I just defended myself behind my left jab, so I packed it in.