Punishment from playing better players

[Derek P]

I think what you have described is learning from experience and a natural progression in the learning process in getting to 100 break standard. As Derek P has said it's those last few tricky balls he is struggling with. I am sure you would agree that it's likely at some point during Derek's breaks of 70 - 80 that there would have been good opportunities to bring those tricky balls into play whilst maintaining good position. It's just recognising those shots and the pattern of the balls. Of course there are times when the opportunities don't present themselves to make an easier 100. This is when you simply have to play to give yourself a shot be it a tough one down the rail or sometimes even a double and play it with a what will be will be mindset.

I broke down on 89 a couple of weeks ago had 3 reds sitting on side rails i got one of them but it was a tricky pot but ok you would go for it if it was the only 1 the second last one stopped me and i think i played the shot incorrectly as the red was on the side rail very near the middle pocket which makes it an extemely difficult pot to drill down the rail into the black pocket my inexperience in making big breaks was probably what stopped me cos I've not played the cannon from the last 1-2 easy reds which i should have looking back now.

To be honest with you I wouldn't have ever thought about that until I watched my mate play last night he was always aware of the right shots to nudge these kind of balls on and I watch hours and hours of snooker on tv so maybe I'm a fool cos I've seen those shots played by the pro's a hundred times but it wasn't until I seen it in front of me that I twigged this is one area where I am going wrong and stopping me making really decent breaks more consistently.

The other thing is duffing the odd ball or positional shot I can't make out am potting everything all the time and then just missing a cannon or shot selection cos clearly am not like tedisbill is saying my mates overall approach to the table is much better than mine but this was one of the main things which jumped out.

[tedisbill]

I don't quite understand that last sentence. Are you saying that you miss balls because your approach to the shot/table is sloppy?

[Csmith]

Yes that's right. So many times you see players leave all the problems until the end and then it all falls apart.

That would be me I guess. I've been in the 70's and 80's a lot recently, more than ever, but I run out of options. I don't even think about nudging balls off the cushions until the last few, but that's probably what is hurting me.

Another important aspect of playing top class players is just becoming accustom to the fewer chances. I've had some strong practice partners over the years and there is a huge difference between making frame winning breaks against someone who only gives you 0.5 chances per frame and someone who gives you 5-6 chances. They force you to bear down and really make the most of your opportunities.

[markz]

I don't quite understand that last sentence. Are you saying that you miss balls because your approach to the shot/table is sloppy?

Sounds like me, rough around the edges compared to solid century makers.

[Derek P]

That would be me I guess. I've been in the 70's and 80's a lot recently, more than ever, but I run out of options. I don't even think about nudging balls off the cushions until the last few, but that's probably what is hurting me.

Another important aspect of playing top class players is just becoming accustom to the fewer chances. I've had some strong practice partners over the years and there is a huge difference between making frame winning breaks against someone who only gives you 0.5 chances per frame and someone who gives you 5-6 chances. They force you to bear down and really make the most of your opportunities.

That’s what I need I can knock in the breaks when I get loads of chances against lesser opposition but it’s intermittent I feel by playing the good players am going to have to find my potting boots faster with little to no chances coming my way.

And tedisbill I’m guilty of missing the odd midrange ball when I need to do anything much with the white stun/screw I partially blame this on not playing for 5 years and also too much time on slow club tables I seem to hit it way too hard when I’m on a match table but I can’t reallt make excuses I just don’t cue those balls very well and sometimes break down when I shouldn’t.

The other area is probably positional shot selection I think is ok but after seeing a century break player do it in front of me I know it’s just ok and not great and I need to work on my break building skills with nudging balls leaving favourable situations and see the game better rather than probably just being capable of picking off reds that are out in open then running out of ideas more to it than just splitting the bunch obviously

[Csmith]

That’s what I need I can knock in the breaks when I get loads of chances against lesser opposition but it’s intermittent I feel by playing the good players am going to have to find my potting boots faster with little to no chances coming my way.

One thing that has helped me was just a change in mindset. Instead of hoping for a straight forward, or semi straight forward, chance I began searching for opportunities to turn a possible pot into a more significant contribution. One of my favorite breaks that I've had recently was just a 50 odd, but when I came to the table, all but one red was clustered and the high valued colours were unavailable. The saving grace was I had an angle on the red to go into the cluster. I think a year or so ago I would have potted red, taken a low value colour and then played safe off the cluster. Instead I risked the cannon on the cluster with the intention of glancing down table and was able to create a better opportunity off of that. It also helped that I've been practicing constructing breaks off the baulk colours a lot recently.

You also made a good observation on these players shot selection and cue ball control. I know for me to make big breaks, I need to make a handful of recovery shots to keep the break going. If I'm not potting well, a possible 50-70 break turns into a 20 break. High level players on the hand tend to keep things pretty tight which seems to be the reason why they can knock in a century and go "Eh, I'm just not playing well today".

[sharkster63]

I think its great that you have the opportunity to play with these great players. I recommend that you go in and practice on your own, practice anything you think you will help beat them. You will have a much better chance to beat them this way. Dont be happy just spotting there balls and watching them play, you will get there with hard work and perseverance. Cheers P.S. dont play them for money... lol

[Noelos237]

I have never seen with my own eyes anybody make a break of more than 16. I would have to travel at least 6 hours to find a snooker club. I would do anything to meet a more experienced player.

[tedisbill]

I have never seen with my own eyes anybody make a break of more than 16. I would have to travel at least 6 hours to find a snooker club. I would do anything to meet a more experienced player.

Sounds like with a few weeks practice you'll make one yourself and see that with your own eyes.

[Noelos237]

Thanks for the inspiration haha, the only snooker table I have access to though is the one at my boarding school. I think I could benefit from talking and playing with another player face to face.

[tomwalker147]

Playing better players can only be a positive, as long as you take the positives from each session.

-When I started playing as a kid (probably from the age of 8) I practised with my dad who at that time could make tons. I learnt a lot about my cue action and basic patterns of play.
-I then practised with players my age and was far better than them, probably didn't learn a lot or improve much during those few years. In fact from age 14-17 my highest break remained at 71 (I'd had 3 of these and kept getting stuck on it!).
-I then went to uni and practised with some players in Preston who were Q school standard and another who went on to be pro and my game improved, I used to watch them and learn a lot from it.
- I'd say age 22 to 25 I learnt the most about break building playing the likes of Pottr and Mark White who would just clear from anywhere. Biggest thing I noticed was that in each break there tends to be an opportunity for you to open the whole table up IF (and it's a big IF) you can spot that crucial shot.
- I'm now a decent match player and make the odd ton myself, not intimidated at all by the so called better players as I know I can mix it with them. I think it's important to know that a frame can be won pretty much by playing the 'correct' shots and not necessarily by blasting your opponents away with huge breaks.

The point of the above is that my game improved everytime I played with better players. When I didn't it stagnated which was probably at the age where my game really could have gone up a few levels.

[Derek P]

Playing better players can only be a positive, as long as you take the positives from each session.

-When I started playing as a kid (probably from the age of 8) I practised with my dad who at that time could make tons. I learnt a lot about my cue action and basic patterns of play.
-I then practised with players my age and was far better than them, probably didn't learn a lot or improve much during those few years. In fact from age 14-17 my highest break remained at 71 (I'd had 3 of these and kept getting stuck on it!).
-I then went to uni and practised with some players in Preston who were Q school standard and another who went on to be pro and my game improved, I used to watch them and learn a lot from it.
- I'd say age 22 to 25 I learnt the most about break building playing the likes of Pottr and Mark White who would just clear from anywhere. Biggest thing I noticed was that in each break there tends to be an opportunity for you to open the whole table up IF (and it's a big IF) you can spot that crucial shot.
- I'm now a decent match player and make the odd ton myself, not intimidated at all by the so called better players as I know I can mix it with them. I think it's important to know that a frame can be won pretty much by playing the 'correct' shots and not necessarily by blasting your opponents away with huge breaks.

The point of the above is that my game improved everytime I played with better players. When I didn't it stagnated which was probably at the age where my game really could have gone up a few levels.

Thanks for the response mate, I can only learn from the experience and take the positives from it.
Up till recently I would say my practice partners were heavily weighted to being of lesser standard than me and it's ok but I don't really feel I ever got anything from these practice sessions I would learn more doing solo.

Now I've got a better mix of 2 or 3 guys higher standard than myself one an ex professional and the other who is high q school standard I feel I'll learn much more now and my game will come on.

Also have to include the comments on this thread and some other threads from the hundred break players who have taken the time to give advice I've taken that in aswell been really helpful, especially on mindset or shot selection.

[Snookclops]

What I don’t get is....

I have played all the clubs in Bristol and I’ve never, ever seen a player even remotely near 100 standard let alone 147.

I’ve spent 3 years on and off and was racking up 20+ hours per week at times and I’m still nowhere near 50.

My playing partner has a load of trophies from when he was a kid so he had early practice, and he’s not a 50 breaker either. 42 was his best v me.

The best I’ve seen is a guy who said he had an 80, once.

Where are all these insane players? Even on YouTube there’s only a few ameteurs who make 100+.

I prob on average make a few 10-20s with the occasional 30ish on a good day with easy balls.

I have beaten a fair few players in these clubs and even the league matches I watch nobody is anywhere near centuries.

One guy I played made a 50 come to think of it.

Just curious how this board is chock full of 147ers, where are you at the clubs or are there select clubs with good cloths that bashers like me don’t get in?

[markz]

What I don’t get is....

I have played all the clubs in Bristol and I’ve never, ever seen a player even remotely near 100 standard let alone 147.

I’ve spent 3 years on and off and was racking up 20+ hours per week at times and I’m still nowhere near 50.

My playing partner has a load of trophies from when he was a kid so he had early practice, and he’s not a 50 breaker either. 42 was his best v me.

The best I’ve seen is a guy who said he had an 80, once.

Where are all these insane players? Even on YouTube there’s only a few ameteurs who make 100+.

I prob on average make a few 10-20s with the occasional 30ish on a good day with easy balls.

I have beaten a fair few players in these clubs and even the league matches I watch nobody is anywhere near centuries.

One guy I played made a 50 come to think of it.

Just curious how this board is chock full of 147ers, where are you at the clubs or are there select clubs with good cloths that bashers like me don’t get in?

Did a search for Bristol league snooker, they have a website and high break boards for 2 leagues and cup matches. Plenty of 50 breaks on there, maybe try join some of the clubs the better scorers are playing from.

http://www.bristolsnookerleague.co.uk/Breaks.htm

[Snookclops]

So making the odd 30 I am good enough to play in a league?

Note there’s not one century so century + breakers must be much rarer.

Thanks for the info, I may well join even if I get whooped it’s worth the experience playing against good players.

Incidentally my partner player is a better player and boy has it upped my game.

Also, I’ve realise how much of this game is psychological. How much pulling off breaks and good shots messes with your opponents confidence. It’s why I think a lot of fans who don’t play love Ronnie and a lot of players can appreciate the endurance and match play strength of Selby and (much as I dislike the guy) John Higgins. You can appreciate match play as different thing to break building.

I guess why even though I see Ronnie as the greatest player, the king is Hendry, he had it all, albeit it left him young m.