Kevin DeRoo cue maker

[Kevin DeRoo]

i am aware they are butterfly splice. i was curious about the length of butt/prongs and the statement of making the cue without weight added.

i am also willing to bet that your will hunt 1pc would have some weight in it to get to nearly 19oz.

you say the splices were long, how long do you reckon? ball park compared to normal 1pc cues?

kevin's cues will be solid ebony below the butterfly splice so will be noticeably heavier naturally than your will hunt traditional four spliced cue.

but i fail to see how longer prongs will add much weight. in fact, they will barely make a difference in themselves.

Yes the length of the prongs will barley make a difference except for the glue surface area. But the big difference between
butterfly versus 4 point splicing is at the base of the splice (where the bottom of the points meet).
Below the base of 4 point Ebony splicing is shaftwood material and at the base of butterfly splicing is solid Ebony.
This solid Ebony difference can add up to 25 grams of natural weight above the balance point of the cue ,which is
perfect for adding weight and good balance in 1-piece cues.
The overall length of our Ebony splices are 23" to 24" from the base of the cue.
Aproximately 40% of our cues are 4 point splicing .
Kevin

[rodandreel]

hello kevin
welcome 14 years and counting with my 1pc ash ebny/snake branch
rodney

[poolqjunkie]

Yes the length of the prongs will barley make a difference except for the glue surface area. But the big difference between
butterfly versus 4 point splicing is at the base of the splice (where the bottom of the points meet).
Below the base of 4 point Ebony splicing is shaftwood material and at the base of butterfly splicing is solid Ebony.
This solid Ebony difference can add up to 25 grams of natural weight above the balance point of the cue ,which is
perfect for adding weight and good balance in 1-piece cues.
The overall length of our Ebony splices are 23" to 24" from the base of the cue.
Aproximately 40% of our cues are 4 point splicing .
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Thank you for the detailed reply. So this long solid ebony butt of your butterfly cues can add about 25 grams (which is a bit less than 1 oz) above the balance point? With a solid ebony butt (without any added weight) isn't the major weight going to be concentrated below the prongs, hence below the balance point?

The Deroo cues I have treid were never butt heavy. They were very well balanced. I just always assumed you have added some weigth may be at werhe the ebony butt joins the shaft. I am suprises that you are saying there is no added weight.

Please correct me if I am wrong, with a very long piece of solid ebony the shaft is going to end further away from the grip hand and is shorter, will this affect the 'feel" of the cue? Again, I am not suggesting your cues feel "dead" as they are not but I am just curious. Your cues usually feel very solid, may be it is because the shaft is shorter and hence firmer?

From what I have seen most 1 piece cues by other cue makers (such as Trevor White, John Parris...etc) feature a much shorter ebony butt length. What kind of difference do you think this difference in length make in terms of playability between your cues and their cues in general?

I notice you keep using "we" and "our" when you refer to your cues may I ask how many workers are working in your workshop?

Thank you very much.

[MikeWooldridge]

But the big difference between butterfly versus 4 point splicing is at the base of the splice (where the bottom of the points meet).
Below the base of 4 point Ebony splicing is shaftwood material and at the base of butterfly splicing is solid Ebony.
This solid Ebony difference can add up to 25 grams of natural weight above the balance point of the cue ,which is
perfect for adding weight and good balance in 1-piece cues.

Thank you but I never asked.

In fact, didn't I already explain exactly the same thing to Terry?

The overall length of our Ebony splices are 23" to 24" from the base of the cue

That's pretty much all I was interested in, thanks for clearing that up.

[the montrealer]

hello kevin
welcome 14 years and counting with my 1pc ash ebny/snake branch
rodney

HI Rodney i thought that you were a snookerforum member for a long time welcome cheers leonard

[DWOT]

Thank you but I never asked.

In fact, didn't I already explain exactly the same thing to Terry?



That's pretty much all I was interested in, thanks for clearing that up.

With all due respect Mike, why are you being a jerk? Seems to me that you just want to pick an argument or just be a knob with any other cue maker on here other than yourself, what's the point in all this? too much testosterone me thinks!

[MikeWooldridge]

With all due respect Mike, why are you being a jerk? Seems to me that you just want to pick an argument or just be a knob with any other cue maker on here other than yourself, what's the point in all this? too much testosterone me thinks!

Thanks for your intelligent, well thought out comments.

Did I say intelligent? Sorry, I meant moronic.

Read the thread again, particularly what I actually asked and what I was answered with.

What argument do you see here? With 'any other cue maker'?

Basically, wtf are you talking about?

There is no 'due respect' in calling someone a jerk/knob and it appears the only one wanting to pick an argument is YOU.

If I have more questions for Kevin I'll ask them. If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, do so.

If not, think carefully before you start flaming again.

[DWOT]

Thanks for your intelligent, well thought out comments.

Did I say intelligent? Sorry, I meant moronic.

Read the thread again, particularly what I actually asked and what I was answered with.

What argument do you see here? With 'any other cue maker'?

Basically, wtf are you talking about?

There is no 'due respect' in calling someone a jerk/knob and it appears the only one wanting to pick an argument is YOU.

If I have more questions for Kevin I'll ask them. If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, do so.

If not, think carefully before you start flaming again.

Yup, somebody needs to empty their sacks more often!

I read it all again and yup, you still come across as a jerk, maybe it's just your way with words?

or is it my way with words?

Who cares, this forum has become a forum for testing your will against others it seems.

[MikeWooldridge]

MW:
What I can't figure out is how a 1pc cue can be weighted up to over 18oz without adding some weight somewhere,

It can't if it's traditional four point splicing, can if it's butterfly spliced, or machine spliced even, depending on butt length

but if the cuemaker drills a long hole up into the butt behind the butt socket and adds lead wouldn't that still make the cue a little butt-heavy? My WH had a balance point of 16.5" and the only thing I noticed about it was the solid ebony part of the butt seemed to be longer than normal but the actual points were no longer than any other cue.

The points length will make virtually no difference.

There are several ways to get weight well up the butt to create a better balanced 1pc.

I have drilled out weight in old h&o cues that was 18"+ up the butt. These were drilled/bored holes so I assume originally bored out with a simple long series drill or possibly specialist gun drill.

But weight can also be added under the splices during manufacture so a cue could show no signs of hole yet have weight up there.

Your h&o cue definitely had weight, probably around same place around 18".

I think most people, if lucky enough to have used one, agree original h&o cues were very good. The secret is in the balance. 1pc cues can be made 'right' no problem, regardless of butt length, splice length etc..

I realize for a 3/4-butt to be over 18oz and still have a 29mm butt and a shaft that is not overly dense the cuemaker can put lead weight at the 3/4 joint area and still maintain a good balance point, but I'm at a loss to see how it can be done with a 1pc cue.

Not any more

[MikeWooldridge]

maybe it's just your way with words?

Possibly, but I see a couple of simple questions in this case. They're answered now and I have no further questions.

or is it my way with words?

Possibly, but who cares.

I got my answers from Kevin and have no interest in your childish misconceived ramblings

[MikeWooldridge]

Btw, dwot, any further insults, do them via pm, don't drag this thread down and spoil Mr Deroos introduction to others.

I am very happy to see Kevin here. A genuine experienced cue maker whose work I have admired for many years.

It's also one more person with an opinion or way of doing things that actually has value cos he knows what he's talking about.

This evens out the balance a bit cos this forum, like all others, is full of unimportant people full of their own self importance, who talk sh*t and spread misinformation.

[Terry Davidson]

MikeW:

Thank you very much for that detailed information on weighting up cues. If I ever get off my butt and start working on these 1pc loser cues I have here I will have to go out and find an 18" drill bit of the right size. This will be after I stretch the cloth on my table which is actually my next project right after I return from Gloucester.

Advantage is in the summer I can do the work outside as I don't have a workshop (my wife with her glass art has the purpose built workshop but I can't use it as I would contaminate the glass - heaven forbid!)

Terry

[DWOT]

Btw, dwot, any further insults, do them via pm, don't drag this thread down and spoil Mr Deroos introduction to others.

I am very happy to see Kevin here. A genuine experienced cue maker whose work I have admired for many years.

It's also one more person with an opinion or way of doing things that actually has value cos he knows what he's talking about.

This evens out the balance a bit cos this forum, like all others, is full of unimportant people full of their own self importance, who talk sh*t and spread misinformation.

LOL, it was the way you came across in your comments and questioning of him that prompted me to make my comments in the first place Mike, as I said maybe it's your way with words or indeed maybe mine...... On another subject, how did your tip discovery pan out in your trials yesterday????? I ask that because I use your supertips and find it be supreme, so if you say you can make it ever better, then that's something to talk about!

[MikeWooldridge]

LOL, it was the way you came across in your comments and questioning of him that prompted me to make my comments in the first place Mike, as I said maybe it's your way with words or indeed maybe mine...... On another subject, how did your tip discovery pan out in your trials yesterday????? I ask that because I use your supertips and find it be supreme, so if you say you can make it ever better, then that's something to talk about!

ok, lets call it a misunderstanding.

yes, i was questioning, but only cos i did not quite understand what was being said.

pqj actually confused issues when he mentioned 'prongs'. he has since explained what he meant to me and now kevin has cleared up my query about the length of his ebony butts.

also, i was puzzled that i asked specifically about ebony length but was given an answer about the way butterfly spliced and hand spliced are made and the way they affect weight. i know this of course, and had already explained to terry in an earlier post almost exactly the same information.

i was just curious about the length. so i have no further questions nor any particular interest in this matter.

as for tips, yes, good news. my little run out yesterday proved to me i am onto something.

but it's not just the tips, i have something else up my sleeve

i'll be posting some more info in a separate thread soon.

[MikeWooldridge]

If I ever get off my butt and start working on these 1pc loser cues I have here I will have to go out and find an 18" drill bit of the right size.

good luck terry, you need to be very careful.

as jason owen can testify, there is a danger of the drill wandering and coming out of the side of cue near splices.