Refereeing question.

[goshow]

Player 1 is at the table and pots red then black then strikes red. A member of the crowd calls out "is that a foul then?" The referee had not replaced the black ball on the table and neither player had noticed that it hadn't been returned. The only person to notice was the member of the crowd.

What happens next?

I've got a fairly good idea but I would just like to see what other people think.

[bkpaul]

A player cannot be fouled for an error made by the referee so the foul is condoned and the player continues (black is obviously spotted)

[goshow]

A player cannot be fouled for an error made by the referee so the foul is condoned and the player continues (black is obviously spotted)

That'll do for me, that's exactly what I thought. Thanks.

[Krypton]

but then, a player might NOT play on until the colour is spotted...


if a few shots later, somebody realizes that a colour has not been spotted, there is NO foul, and the colour will be spotted. nobody can claim a foul later, it must be either seen by the ref or a player.

if it's just in his next shot that he realizes a colour has not been spotted yet, it's a foul. (foul: if a player plays a stroke before the referee has spotted all colours. it does NOT say 'if the ref doesn't seem to realize he's got to spot, you can play on...)

[The Statman]

Krypton

The rule actually states, "striking before the referee has completed the spotting of a colour" which gives the implication of not giving the referee time to do it.

Further, the opening paragraph about spotting colours states:

7. Spotting Colours
Any colour pocketed or forced off the table shall be spotted before the next stroke is made, until finally potted under Section 3 Rule 3(f).
(a) A player shall not be held responsible for any mistake by the referee in failing to spot correctly any ball.

Therefore, if the referee has called the score from the previous stroke, it is pretty obvious that all involved have overlooked the fact that the black requires spotting.

I therefore concur with previous answers that the player should not be called for a foul.

If the player gets down on the stroke while the referee is in the process of spotting the ball and he plays the stroke before the colour has been placed, then that is a foul.


Subsequent subsections of the Spotting Colours rule makes this clear:

(c) If a stroke is made with a ball or balls not correctly spotted, they will be considered to be correctly spotted for subsequent strokes. Any colour incorrectly missing from the table will be spotted:
(i) without penalty when discovered if missing due to previous oversight,
(ii) subject to penalty if the striker player before the referee was able to effect the spotting.

...Part (ii) being the relevant bit, specifically stating "before the referee was able...".

[andy carson]

whichever way it is you would want to sack the ref!!!!

[The Statman]

whichever way it is you would want to sack the ref!!!!

Perhaps, but the player ought to realise as well.

It would be quite rare, you'd think, that both the player and the referee fail to notice – but of course, it does happen.

I remember once refereeing a match and as the last red went down I noticed the green was not on the table. None of us could work out whether I had forgotten to re-spot it (we remembered a green being taken) or if it had just rolled into a pocket without anybody noticing!

[The Statman]

What happens next?

And, just to answer this bit of the question...

If the black is off the table, it will of course be spotted without penalty.

However, if it's been wrongly spotted, say on the pink spot, and a shot has been played, it stays where it is.

One thing that can happen is that the black is replaced slightly off its spot and the player, after potting the next red and then lining up for the black, notices it and asks the referee (probably in effect, the other player) to re-spot it.

The correct response to this request is, "Not now that a shot has been played."

[goshow]

whichever way it is you would want to sack the ref!!!!

LOL. I can't sack myself!!!!

It was during a minor league match last night, nothing too serious.

I'd seen the player pot red & black and called the break of 8 but for some unknown reason i failed to take it out the pocket, my mind was miles away. Anyway, the bloke played his stroke and missed the next red.

With that this bloke, from their team, shouts out "that's got to be a foul". Both the players at the table were looking around bemused, as was I. Then the spectator said the black was still in the pocket.

I respotted the black and called foul 7. Before the other opponent had reached the table I informed both players that I was 95% sure it was not a foul but as I was unsure i'd let the 7 points stand.

The more I thought about it the more certain I was that it was not a foul, and i was bloody right!!!!

It wasn't a case of the player striking the ball before i'd spotted the black. Sorry i didn't nake my frst post a bit clearer.

Anyway, thanks for the info and replies.