Alex Higgins Foul?

[dmorley85]

Is it just me or does Higgins move the white with his tip (around 36 seconds) after Reardon went in-off with the white? This would be classed as a foul 4 points now, unless it wasn't classed as a foul back in 82?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSl-ztXzhQY

[blahblah01]

I do that, so hopefuly not; but will stop if it is

[Londonlad147]

No, it is not a foul now, nor was it at the time.

The wording since 1995 is...

(b) If the tip of the cue should touch the cue-ball while positioning it, and the referee is satisfied that the striker was not attempting to play a stroke, then the cue-ball is not in play.

For quite some years before that there was a note in the rule book which read:

NOTE: USING THE CUE BALL TO POSITION THE CUE BALL [whilst in hand]
If the referee considers the player is not attempting to play a stroke, even though the tip of the cue touches the cue ball, the ball is not in play.

If the cue ball isn't in play then you can't foul it!

[jonny66]

A few weeks back I had ball in hand, and I kind of dropped it while positioning it and it rolled off and hit another ball, I just said foul and sat down. I'm not sure if it was a foul or not though, is it?

[Londonlad147]

A few weeks back I had ball in hand, and I kind of dropped it while positioning it and it rolled off and hit another ball, I just said foul and sat down. I'm not sure if it was a foul or not though, is it?

Yes, a foul, penalty of value of ball on or ball concerned, for what would be considered to be touching a ball in play.

[acesinc]

A few weeks back I had ball in hand, and I kind of dropped it while positioning it and it rolled off and hit another ball, I just said foul and sat down. I'm not sure if it was a foul or not though, is it?

Yes, a foul, penalty of value of ball on or ball concerned, for what would be considered to be touching a ball in play.

Minor addition to this that may not be obvious after reading the answer above. I bring this up because I was spectating when I saw this incident occur and the two players did not know what to do...

If you had ball in hand prior to the initial break-off (in other words, you were preparing to break off with the opening stroke), and dropped White disturbing one of the baulk colours, then it would not be a foul. At that time, no balls are yet in play so it would be no foul the balls reset, and the same player would take the break-off. By the sound of your story, this incident occurred mid-frame in which case it is of course a foul as you disturbed balls in play as stated by Londonlad. Also note that in your scenario, the incoming striker would NOT have ball in hand; he has the usual options with the cue ball and other balls remaining where they came to rest after you dropped it. If you dropped it and it did not disturb any other balls, then of course, no foul and you can retrieve the cue ball and continue to play your ball in hand.

[Dave_marsy]

Is it just me or does Higgins move the white with his tip (around 36 seconds) after Reardon went in-off with the white? This would be classed as a foul 4 points now, unless it wasn't classed as a foul back in 82
He uses the side of the cue NOT THE TIP....it's no fowl lots of players do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSl-ztXzhQY

He uses the side of the cue NOT THE TIP ...it's no fowl lots of players do it

[Bigmeek]

He uses the side of the cue NOT THE TIP ...it's no fowl lots of players do it

Doesn't matter if it's side of cue OR tip. The rules allow him to position the ball before taking his shot. That's my reading of it.

[DeanH]

He uses the side of the cue NOT THE TIP ...it's no fowl lots of players do it

It if not a foul regardless of whether tip or shaft, or finger or thumb, as in post 3 above the rule for positioning the cue ball when in hand and obviously not an attempted strike - no foul

also

NOTE: USING THE CUE BALL TO POSITION THE CUE BALL [whilst in hand]

I am sure LL meant "Cue" and not "cue ball"

[Bigmeek]

Had a situation last season where the player used the rest (head) to position the white. Referee called a foul. Arguement followed. No-one knew the rule!

[DeanH]

Had a situation last season where the player used the rest (head) to position the white. Referee called a foul. Arguement followed. No-one knew the rule!

Assuming this was after a Foul and Ball In Hand; then no foul as the cue ball is not in play and it was not an attempt to strike the cue ball. What happened in your scenario was a bit harsh to me

[Londonlad147]

Had a situation last season where the player used the rest (head) to position the white. Referee called a foul. Arguement followed. No-one knew the rule!

Assuming the ball was in hand:

(b) The cue-ball remains in-hand until:
(i) it is played fairly from in-hand; or
(ii) a foul is committed whilst the ball is on the table.

Therefore, touching the cue ball in any way shape or form is not a foul, unless the striker was actually making a stroke. Part (ii) refers simply to the act of other fouls like touching another ball in play (ie one which is on the table).

The referee was wrong to have called a foul.

[travisbickle]

I remember Carl Morris doing this during the European Pool Championships in France.
Referee called a foul and he went ballistic :biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

[Londonlad147]

I remember Carl Morris doing this during the European Pool Championships in France.
Referee called a foul and he went ballistic :biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

Not sure about all pool rule sets but in World Rules 8-ball, it is a foul should the tip touch the cue ball during positioning (and a foul break if it happens at the start of a frame).

This is from the 'Guidance to Referees':

It is not a foul for a player to use the cue to reposition the cue ball in baulk, when the cue ball is in hand. However if the tip of the cue touches the cue ball during such a manoeuvre a standard foul will be called, for failing to perform a legal shot. However, if this happens prior to the break a foul break will be called, thereby allowing the opponent to reposition the cue ball.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Not sure about all pool rule sets but in World Rules 8-ball, it is a foul should the tip touch the cue ball during positioning (and a foul break if it happens at the start of a frame).

This is from the 'Guidance to Referees':

It is not a foul for a player to use the cue to reposition the cue ball in baulk, when the cue ball is in hand. However if the tip of the cue touches the cue ball during such a manoeuvre a standard foul will be called, for failing to perform a legal shot. However, if this happens prior to the break a foul break will be called, thereby allowing the opponent to reposition the cue ball.

The rules of snooker and English pool are just plain stupid. Rules should be there to ensure a player does not gain advantage by cheating - they should not be there so some bottom inspector can call foul at the drop of a hat. Quite why we must all wait with bated breath whilst a cue ball stops rolling after the black has dropped is beyond me - in all my years of watching and playing, i have never seen a cue ball speed up and suddenly veer into a pocket.