Official Pocket Size

[buduk]

i would say the only coin that reaches it would be 2p coin ? is this any help

[moglet]

Buduk, even allowing for any possible small inaccuracies, your corner pockets are very tight. You did well to take the measurements. We haven't established where the slate drop is, but your corner pocket jaws are slightly tighter than the professional snooker template. You are right to want them made a little easier.

One further task for you to do, to measure the slate drop. This is probably easier than taking geometrical measurements but it will also confirm the "A" measurement you took.

The attachment shows an arrangement of four standard 2 1/16" balls in the pocket opening. All balls should be touching and the two nearest the cushion should touch the cushion. (I assume your pockets are not undercut?). The two balls that are a set for the corner pocket should also be a set for the opposite middle pocket. If you look where the two outer balls actually touch the cushion, on a match pocket the points where the balls touch the cushion are close to being coincident with the start of the jaw (that is the "A" measurement is about 5.00" or 5.25" {127 or 133mm}). That confirmed and the two balls touching the cushion are not within the geometry of the pocket, if you slip a British coin under the ball nearest the pocket (golf ball marking style) so it just touches the underside of the ball's curvature, what value coin does not cover or overhang the start of the slate drop?



Ignore the 3.25" measurement for the moment.

[buduk]

dunno if i have done this right but here goes !! A = 115mm B=80mm and C=50mm but not sure if i have done this correctly but thx anyways

[buduk]

thx for your help ill take a look when i get back from work as for the middle pockets they seem fine its just the corners

[moglet]

Buduk,

If yours is a private table and not one acquired as tournament standard it is not likely to be too tight, unless I know exactly what you are measuring and where little can be made of the "real" size of your pockets. Are you referring to both corner and middles?

"Standard" amateur pockets are well known and well documented, however understanding the variations is much more difficult.

Any competent fitter can make your pockets comfortable for you, they will not need to be re-rubbered to make them bigger, just recovered (perhaps, if you are lucky £150) but you do need to know what to ask for, and that's the difficult bit.

So far as the corners are concerned, this might help to identify your pocket standard, I need at least the "A" measurement:
http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...1&d=1204245348

[buduk]

i could do with some help also as my table pockets seem really tight for beginner like me,and wondered if they could be made bigger ? and a rough cost to get someone out to take a look and correct if need be? i live in the Carlisle area if this helps or point me in the right direction of a fitter that would come here to take a look ,i feel thta in my local club there a bit more generous and if i can alter them would make my enjoyment of the game loads better as some shots seem as if there going in then just rattle out or wipe it feet b4 going in the only measurement i made was in the corner pocket and the nearest point of the cushion which was 3 and a quater inch

[Driller]

These might help:

Moglet, these diagrams are mighty impressive and look very authentic. Are these traced from a table you have acces to or do they come from existing templates? In any case, if you confirm that they are the real deal (and as I said they sure look like it) I shall use them for my table being made.

[moglet]

Wasn't pockets in old times smaller???

Pardon, but which pockets and when? At one time in the past snooker was played to the old billiards template, it seems it was too difficult for struggling professionals and made easier for them.

The "old times" billiards pocket was, correct me if I'm wrong, bigger than the current snooker pro template. Certainly the older template is tighter than any normal club pocket and it was not undercut which makes the pocket smaller, as explained in an earlier post.

OK, in answer to the cloth thing, it does make a small difference but only on newly covered tables but not as much as you'd think. The cushion cloth was changed for another reason and, incidentally, does not work.

[moglet]

So some interest, is good

If we are to get anywhere useful with this, is there anybody else here who has played to and understands the current pro snooker template? I hear a lot of waffle but nothing concrete. In fact, whoever you are, if you do play on a table do you know to which standard you are playing? Taking a single measurement is futile unless there is a known framework or shape that can be taken as a given, on most tables there is no given.

[hegeland]

Indeed Semih, that's because those who know (WSA) prefer to keep everything secret and also there are other factors such as cushions and cloth to take into consideration as well which makes it more complicated. But I would say the main reason is that WSA keep some sort of copyright of their templates, totally absurd IMO, like if FIFA would keep the measurements of the ball or the goal a secret. Because of all the hush-hush we can only speculate.

[Semih_Sayginer]

over the years there does seem to be a heck of a lot of players, commentators and media people who talk about pocket size, and the differences in them over the years, without too many facts being quoted, at least on tv (not a lot of times anyway)

seems like a never ending debate

[missneworleans]

Wasn't pockets in old times smaller???

[moglet]

Er, yes, but I assumed the OP was asking about current professional snooker match pockets as opposed to club or amateur standards. The original billiards template, with no undercut, has been altered so much over the years and the changes made controversial and difficult to research with any certainty though there is little doubt about the current pro snooker and pro billiards templates.

[The Statman]

Yes, it is confusing, the middle pocket particularly, here we have to assume the "at the fall" measurement is taken differently from the corner, nevertheless small changes to these dimensions, wherever they are taken, make noticeable changes to the way the pocket behaves.

And the reason no actual measurement is quoted, is probably precisely because of the amount of wording required to specify exactly what is being measured!

But it is generally accepted that the measurements (with however many ifs and buts) is 3½" for corners and 4 for middles (at least since 1926 – see the other thread that I linked to on my first message).

[moglet]

Yes, it is confusing, the middle pocket particularly, here we have to assume the "at the fall" measurement is taken differently from the corner, nevertheless small changes to these dimensions, wherever they are taken, make noticeable changes to the way the pocket behaves.