Parris visit

[Leo]

ramon the clues are there!!! they allways have been you don't need others to find them for you

agreed you don't need to be a spy when the writing is on the wall

[Ramon]

ramon the clues are there!!! they allways have been you don't need others to find them for you

Good post .,,,,,

[GeordieDS]

I wouldn't wait a week for a cue let alone 2 or 3 years and anyone who think they're getting this too notch quality hitting better then everything else on their door steps seriously need to have a think because you ain't getting a better playing cue then what's on the Thai market and don't care what anyone else says.
Yes re-sale on English cuemakers is a lot better but if the cue is that good re-sale wouldn't even be in your thoughts. The way the cuemaker market has gone we are now defiantly in a society of the enthusiast rather then the serious players.

Cue junkies is what I'd call them, I see some of the prices people pay and i think they should be sectioned for their own good

[tetricky]

For reasons that I would essentially describe as accidental (started picking up cues cheap, and trying them to see what direction to go in once I'd decided to ditch my Parris, coupled with a bit of curiosity about different cues of similar specification), I've recently acquired a number of cues. I have a pool table so a good slug of them will end up as rack cues, and that's fine because I want guests to have a good selection of decent cues to choose from when they visit. Approximately four to six will be kept aside for playing cues for people close to me, and of course myself.

I have some cues that other people describe as having 'great' shafts. I have some no-mark unbadged cues. Where the specifications are similar, the differences in how they play are at best marginal, and most often miniscule. I genuinely think I could get used to them all without problem....the biggest difference is that of weight differences.....an ounce more can feel a lot in a similarly balanced cue....but you know what, you can get used to that as well, and on a slower table a heavier cue isn't a bad thing.

If the weight, balance, butt diameter, and length suit you, then with a decent tip on you can play with pretty much anything. Broom handles included.

What I don't understand is what difference it makes to people how a cue is made. I understand that some people are prepared to pay more for imaginary dragons tears, but more fool them. surely what matters most is what you end up with, not how it got there?

I have a Parris ambassador, and it doesn't suit me. It's a whippy shaft and an 8.5mm tip. Unless I got £300 for it, I still wouldn't let it go...I prefer to keep it as an occasional pool cue. Simply because any less and it wouldn't be worth me taking a loss on it. I don't think anyone in their right mind would pay that for it. I wouldn't now.

[Shockerz]

What I do'nt understand is , if JP has so many shafts then whay people has to wait almost 2 yrs for a 3/4 cue .
No matter where those shafts come from . Very strange imo .
( sorry , off the topic ).

When you buy a house, the paperwork takes around a month to complete for a standard buy. That's one day to do the paperwork and 30 days on the shelf to make you think somethings happening for all that money you're paying.

[Shockerz]

They are not full length, but are a bit long for 3/4

I have a JP Classic Cue.

In my opinion, I am sure the butt is a single piece of ebony turned on a lathe, probably with one of those shafts you can see in the pics placed on the end at some point.
On the butt, I can see many rings going across the length of the butt like it's turned on a lathe and I cannot see any splice lines at all (tried to take a pic but hard to see rings).

The cue was bought as handmade which I thought it was, not just part of it. The classic is the cheapest JP but that's not the point. If the butt was turned on a lathe and the 3/4 shaft was ordered in from another 3rd party pre-turned then which bit of the JP hand made story am I actually getting for my money and the journey to London to see which 'Hand Made' cue to buy?

[tetricky]

The hand crafted tip?

[Shockerz]

The hand crafted tip?

Sorry. Did you mean using the hand-crafted term so the cue isn't totally hand made?

[tetricky]

No, I was being sarcy, for the lols.

Handmade is a problematic term. What do you expect it to mean? Do you expect no use of tools whatsoever? Only hand tools? You know that (unless CNC programmed) using a lathe is a hand operated skill? A lathe isn't acceptable, no? What about an electric plane? What about someone elses hands? Someone in Thailand, or China, perhaps?

If you have an expectation of what handmade means to you, and what you expect it to be, shouldn't you ask and check that it conforms to your expectation (if this is part of your buying decision)? Is it actually about perceived value, investment/sell on value, or the quality of the end product?

I don't know or wish to impose any specific answer to these questions on you, I'm just curious why people seem to get so aerated about things that they imagine, but can't actually identify in the final product. But then I'm a very function over form sort of person - I don't really see any value in cosmetics, or brands, or badges. I generally prefer my Butters unbadged.

[RogiBear]

I have a JP Classic Cue.

In my opinion, I am sure the butt is a single piece of ebony turned on a lathe, probably with one of those shafts you can see in the pics placed on the end at some point.
On the butt, I can see many rings going across the length of the butt like it's turned on a lathe and I cannot see any splice lines at all (tried to take a pic but hard to see rings).

The cue was bought as handmade which I thought it was, not just part of it. The classic is the cheapest JP but that's not the point. If the butt was turned on a lathe and the 3/4 shaft was ordered in from another 3rd party pre-turned then which bit of the JP hand made story am I actually getting for my money and the journey to London to see which 'Hand Made' cue to buy?

All the 3/4 cues that up makes that split at 16" will be made from a solid bit of ebony turned on a lathe. Regarding the shafts being longer than standard 3/4 shafts I/we are referring to the way the Thai one piece cues are made ie an extended shaft hidden under the butt

[Leo]

t. But then I'm a very function over form sort of person - I don't really see any value in cosmetics, or brands, or badges. I generally prefer my Butters unbadged.

And how much did you pay for your Butters?

[Shockerz]

No, I was being sarcy, for the lols.

Handmade is a problematic term. What do you expect it to mean? Do you expect no use of tools whatsoever? Only hand tools? You know that (unless CNC programmed) using a lathe is a hand operated skill? A lathe isn't acceptable, no? What about an electric plane? What about someone elses hands? Someone in Thailand, or China, perhaps?

If you have an expectation of what handmade means to you, and what you expect it to be, shouldn't you ask and check that it conforms to your expectation (if this is part of your buying decision)? Is it actually about perceived value, investment/sell on value, or the quality of the end product?

I don't know or wish to impose any specific answer to these questions on you, I'm just curious why people seem to get so aerated about things that they imagine, but can't actually identify in the final product. But then I'm a very function over form sort of person - I don't really see any value in cosmetics, or brands, or badges. I generally prefer my Butters unbadged.

Christ. I'm glad you didn't want me to answer as there were a few questions in there.

I get what you're saying as I've read all the previous threads on what constitutes hand made, hand crafted, whether an electric plane is ok and you'd have to be an idiot to take it from a 2" square to an over sized dowel.

I agree on all the points.

My own (personal) point of view with regards all the tools that could be used is that if I wanted a machine made (I consider that to be a lathe) then I would have bought one.

I thought I would treat myself at the time to something made by hand. I can accept the misconceptions as to what is handmade but I think turned on a lathe is a little different to planed from a lump of wood.

I've seen the Mike Wooldridge video of him taking it to a dowel with an electric plane and don't personally have too much of an issue having planed similar lumps of wood myself.

So I guess after reading the whole website that's where I would draw the line and I know, after reading other threads, others would say I would probably be far to generous.

As for badges. I bought the cue after advice (at the time) as to a JP being a quality product made predominantly by human hands (and also inferred on the website); after getting back into snooker at that time and taking in interest in all hand made cues, I now know different.

I would happily buy a cue from most cue makers now (including Butters) as I didn't know such a range of options existed.

I'm a pretty plain person hence the complete ebony butt (although I have come to appreciate all the different woods seen on this forum since becoming a member).

Hopefully the words read right as I am certainly not having a pop, I just know a little more than I did 4 years ago when I picked up a cue again, A lot of these issues are open to debate (which I enjoy!).

[tetricky]

And how much did you pay for your Butters?

Which one?

I've paid between £70, and £150, but mostly under £100 (only two over, and one of those only over that amount after delivery charge). I have six.

[Shockerz]

All the 3/4 cues that up makes that split at 16" will be made from a solid bit of ebony turned on a lathe. Regarding the shafts being longer than standard 3/4 shafts I/we are referring to the way the Thai one piece cues are made ie an extended shaft hidden under the butt

Yep. I'm with you now and appreciate the heads up!

I remember the Thai thread and the debate over removing the splices to prove where the cue was made (not wishing to re-ignite it).

Do any cue makers make a butt out of solid ebony and then add a top splice for ease of making the cue rather the the more conventional planning of all 4 sides and adding ebony and top splice afterwards?

[Shockerz]

Which one?

I've paid between £70, and £150, but mostly under £100 (only two over, and one of those only over that amount after delivery charge). I have six.

Maybe I should have come to you when I started playing again, you seem to have more choice of cues than Mr JP. Nice to have a few cues though (as I am finding out these days).