Side on the object ball

[itsnoteasy]

I play a lot of shots with what I call 'helping side' as they mean I can hit the ball less firm to exaggerate the angles that natural stuns, screws and follow throughs provide.

Some wouldn't classify those shots as playing with side as you are only moving slightly across on the horizontal axis of the cue ball. But the effect is evident even with those minute changes.
.

I am not a great user of side, but i will use it when i feel there is no other shot that can be classed as the correct one, but i do recognise that even a trace of side must widen or check the white balls angle as when i move my tip from top of cue ball to bottom each mill, is worth 3 or 4 inches, for me, in change of direction on a stunned black up to pink spot area, so it stands to reason just a mill off centre on the horizontal must affect the white balls direction off the cush.
I am guilty of thinking side is played at the outer edges of the white, i will have a session on trace amounts of side to see the changes.

[nrage]

1 - Black on 25, steady run with right hand side.
2 - Black on 57, screw back with right hand side.
3 - Black on 73, steady run with left hand side.
4 - Black on 89, top spin with a touch of right hand side.
5 - Black on 97, slight stun with a trace of left hand side.
6 - Black on 105, deep stun with left hand side.
7 - Black on 113, screw with right hand side.
8 - Yellow, natural with a touch of left hand side.
9 - Green, stun with left hand side.
10 - Brown, stun with a trace of right hand side.

Relating these back to the original Q of whether side has an effect off the object ball. All of the above involve widening or narrowing the angle off the cushion, none of them involve just the object ball. Did Ronnie use side on any shots in this break which did not contact a cushion? Or, is it simply too hard to tell?

[throtts]

The most common example in my play is when I finish too high on the black, I just drop it in with a touch of running side. Check side helps the cueball angle on the occasional cut back, but each will have the same effect in terms of amount.
Also, dropping in the colours off their spots, touch of side to widen angles.


It's horses for courses my friend. I have a smooth flowy follow through. I don't always strike to the chest, but I do definitely like to feel the shots. I don't worry about anything other than feeling that cue go through straight against my chin and chest.
My many hours of practice over my youth mean that it is easier for me to play the shots with side I have mentioned. It's not because they are easier, it's simply what I am used to doing repetitively.
I assure you, I didn't start out that way when I first picked up a cue. It's just about finding the arsenal of shots you feel comfortable with.
Yes, the hepling shots can all be played with out the side. But sometimes it requires you follow through firmer or softer to achieve what you could using helping side, whilst maintaining your usual follow through speed.

Tempo is important.

When being "High on the black", thats exactly when I use running side. This (imo) allows me to float the black in and keeps me staying on the reds. I have been trying the very same pots with soft stun and screw but my percentage is so much higher in terms of the pot and the positioning when I am using the running side, as you say though pottr (if i read you correct) , without the use of some side you have to punch the cue ball that much harder to get the cue ball around the same position.

And with regard to a poster above saying Trump playing these shots on these " beautiful tables ", trust me, if these tables are as tight as my Star TC then these shots have to be hit very very sweetly and cue'd straight ALL the time. The amount of times I have had great breaks only to see the object rattle when I could have sworn it was going to drop, on a club table everyone of them would have dropped easily. I would love to have a decent camera to take you guys a picture from black ball spot to its corner pockets on my table, you would see how little the allowance is for a poorly cue'd black.

[ace man]

Relating these back to the original Q of whether side has an effect off the object ball. All of the above involve widening or narrowing the angle off the cushion, none of them involve just the object ball. Did Ronnie use side on any shots in this break which did not contact a cushion? Or, is it simply too hard to tell?

He may have used a trace on: 3rd red, 3rd black, 5th black, 7th black. Not entirely sure about these or any others. Why is this so important?

I'll tell you this though. Even us lowly amateurs who practice a bit don't need conscious thoughts like "I'll play this shot with this and that amount of side because with plain ball I can't achieve this and that...etc"...when we play decent at least. Whenever I scored 50+ which is quite a big break for me, I never gave any special thought as to where I hit the white ball. I just wanted object ball in, cue ball there...that's it. The only thing I would remember would be that final dreadful miss or bottled position as tension started to build up inside me when I approached big numbers, nothing else. Even guys like me have some sort of autopilot. Trouble is, it is not always on and it doesn't handle pressure all that well. I will need to put in a lot more hours working on all aspects of the game to make that autopilot more reliable.

I can't even begin to imagine what kind of autopilot Ronnie must have to be able to play freely like that.

[throtts]

I can't even begin to imagine what kind of autopilot Ronnie must have to be able to play freely like that.

That autopilot is called "I dont give a toss" attitude. Obviously easier said than done.

Bingham an example yesterday evening. He had ample chances to send Selby packing but kept on missing his chances. So what happens then, Selby gains huge confidence from it because he now 100% believes Bingham is not capable of crossing that winning line. Its not so much the fact that Selby was awesome, just that Bingham was not threatening him at all.

Snooker is such a whats going on in the mind game, as we all know.

[nrage]

He may have used a trace on: 3rd red, 3rd black, 5th black, 7th black. Not entirely sure about these or any others. Why is this so important?

The OP wanted to know if using side when you weren't running into a cushion was useful or pointless, so I wondered if Ronnie did it in that break. I can't see it, but I can't see any shots where I would have thought he would need to either so..

I'll tell you this though. Even us lowly amateurs who practice a bit don't need conscious thoughts like "I'll play this shot with this and that amount of side because with plain ball I can't achieve this and that...etc"...when we play decent at least. Whenever I scored 50+ which is quite a big break for me, I never gave any special thought as to where I hit the white ball. I just wanted object ball in, cue ball there...that's it. The only thing I would remember would be that final dreadful miss or bottled position as tension started to build up inside me when I approached big numbers, nothing else. Even guys like me have some sort of autopilot. Trouble is, it is not always on and it doesn't handle pressure all that well. I will need to put in a lot more hours working on all aspects of the game to make that autopilot more reliable.

I can't even begin to imagine what kind of autopilot Ronnie must have to be able to play freely like that.

Interesting. I wonder if everyone who is in the zone is like this, I wonder if you're not thinking about it, or you are but you immediately forget once the shot is done because you're already thinking about the next one. Nic Barrow talks about and teaches very conscious selection of shot, height, power, side etc.

[pottr]

No, there were no shots where side was required other than creating more preferable angles from cushions.

As amazing as the break was, you would have been able to select the exact same shot Ronnie played if you were controlling him. Using side to avoid cannons and obstructions before hitting a cushion isn't really used too often in clearing up as destructive as this.

As Throtts said, on those tables you can't get by without playing with traces of side. The second you have to thump the white, you run the risk of rattling one.

I get in the zone when I play usually after about 5/6 frames. Then you're just settled into the routine of what you've been doing everytime you've ever picked up a cue. At that point, all I think about is where I want to put the white. Everything else takes care of itself.

[Terry Davidson]

I don't recommend using side on any shot where a cushion is not involved WITH THE EXCEPTION of when you are just partially blocked on a pot and need to go around the intervening ball.

There are some shots where everyone should learn to use side (even beginners). These are:

1. The break shot.
2. Any easy shot where side is required to get position AND A CUSHION IS INVOLVED (example is where the position is off on a red near the black and the player must use either check side to hold for the black or running side to get up for the blue).
3. There is another occasion where I use side most of the time and that is when a ball is frozen on the cushion, but that is only because I was shown this when I was young and playing on pool tables where it is virtually impossible to miss a ball along the cushion using running side so now I will use it when a ball is on the top or side cushions and the cueball is fairly close to the object ball (but NEVER when there is distance between the balls). I can't remember if I use it along the baulk cushion or not as the opportunity comes up very rarely.

Using side (in my opinion) when there is no cushion involved and there is no need for it just makes the pot that more difficult so why bother as you can accomplish exactly the same thing by adjusting the height of the hit on the cueball. I believe players who use 'helping side' must have learned to play that way and it's become natural to them, but remember the biggest advocate of helping side was Willy Thorne and he won ONE ranking tournament in his entire career, whereas those players who didn't use helping side had better careers.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Relating these back to the original Q of whether side has an effect off the object ball. All of the above involve widening or narrowing the angle off the cushion, none of them involve just the object ball. Did Ronnie use side on any shots in this break which did not contact a cushion? Or, is it simply too hard to tell?

It's impossible to tell as you can't see where his tip is striking the cue ball. Doubt very much if he could have actually talked his way through the break afterwards either as he was in the zone and flowing, in the state of zen where there is no thought and he was at one with his essential nature, that of a snooker player.

[Giggity1984]

remember the biggest advocate of helping side was Willy Thorne and he won ONE ranking tournament in his entire career, whereas those players who didn't use helping side had better careers.

Great points Terry.

I'd much rather hit the white center ball and adjust the top/bottom spin to gain position. Especially when no cushions are involved.

Also, If WT advocates it, then I certainly won't be doing it. lol.

[Sidd]

I don't recommend using side on any shot where a cushion is not involved WITH THE EXCEPTION of when you are just partially blocked on a pot and need to go around the intervening ball.

There are some shots where everyone should learn to use side (even beginners). These are:

1. The break shot.
2. Any easy shot where side is required to get position AND A CUSHION IS INVOLVED (example is where the position is off on a red near the black and the player must use either check side to hold for the black or running side to get up for the blue).
3. There is another occasion where I use side most of the time and that is when a ball is frozen on the cushion, but that is only because I was shown this when I was young and playing on pool tables where it is virtually impossible to miss a ball along the cushion using running side so now I will use it when a ball is on the top or side cushions and the cueball is fairly close to the object ball (but NEVER when there is distance between the balls). I can't remember if I use it along the baulk cushion or not as the opportunity comes up very rarely.

Using side (in my opinion) when there is no cushion involved and there is no need for it just makes the pot that more difficult so why bother as you can accomplish exactly the same thing by adjusting the height of the hit on the cueball. I believe players who use 'helping side' must have learned to play that way and it's become natural to them, but remember the biggest advocate of helping side was Willy Thorne and he won ONE ranking tournament in his entire career, whereas those players who didn't use helping side had better careers.

Terry

This Terry is a great post for a person as dumb as myself I came to the forum after a while and scrolled through the discussion and was about to decide using side without cushion involvement for better positioning... and then i read your post and am off the idea for sure.

Thanks for the on time comment... Terry saves the day!

[Sidd]

By the way, in the old days while learning and playing the game on my own; I used ot play with side a lot and hence my side-play is pretty good ... can easily pot a quarter ball in centre with running side to go to the other half of the table ... potting precision might be 7 of 10 .. similarly I can use side on any occassion... Balls off the cushion I can gget them (while playing in full swing) with both running and even check side. However, after getting to learn the game seriously over the past two years or so I stopped using side where not needed and always wont use it if there is another alternate available... But one thing here; I have never played with side where cushion is not involved so why doing it now given that it will only make the pot difficult and the result of the side for position might not be that high.

The real question is where the cushion isnt involved. There is no huge need for side on these occassions. i still play with side quite a lot (when needed and when cushion is involved) however for the time being I wont go in to side-play where cushion is not involved. I believe one can go to that action once one is making regular 80 breaks or so...!!!

[vmax4steve]

The real question is where the cushion isnt involved. There is no huge need for side on these occassions. i still play with side quite a lot (when needed and when cushion is involved) however for the time being I wont go in to side-play where cushion is not involved. I believe one can go to that action once one is making regular 80 breaks or so...!!!

Another question is do you need to play shots with side that don't touch a cushion in order to make that leap to 80+ break standard. There are definately situations that will arise when playing where this type of shot will be beneficial, ie playing a close cannon at a slow pace where the contact can be made thicker so as not to leave yourself chinese snookered on the next ball.
If you can do it then the time is now.