Nic Barrow's latest gadget.....

[lesedwards]

j6uk:

The other famous coach asked me not to publicly say I've seen his training videos and analysis of a lot of the best pros.

Another point...you advocate the 'circle' grip using forefinger and thumb and teach all your students that is the proper and only correct grip (or so you've said). A coach has to realize the grip will never be 'one size fits all' and your circle grip may not be right for some players. Just look at a few of the pros...Ronnie keeps his forefinger up higher than the other fingers, Steve Davis has experimented with using the back 3 fingers and keeping the forefinger right off the cue and said he likes the grip (although I'm not certain if he's still using it or not but he used it a few years back when he beat John Higgins in the Worlds last 16) and the big one was Alex Higgins who had his forefinger pointed straight down, the same as his thumb.

Virtually every great pro has a different grip and I believe every player should find what works for him and then use it consistently. You might have the right grip for YOU but it ain't necessarily the right grip for everyone.

Oh, and believe what you want regarding Ronnie's grip however it just doesn't matter because that grip is right for Ronnie but not might be right for most other players out there. Or else look Ronnie up sometime and show him your grip and see if he likes it for himself.

Les:

This is what you should do:

1. Wrist joint hanging straight down but not rigid. (You might even experiment with having the wrist bent slightly backwards which will give you the 'snap' and put more stuff on the cueball and more drive through).
2. The grip for you should be primarily the 2nd finger but the other 3 fingers should be on the butt.
3. Slow backswing to where you like your 'trigger' finger (3rd finger) to be with the end pad just touching the butt.
4. Wrist should be cocked outward away from the body a bit with the cue laying on the middle pad of the 3rd finger.
5. Butt should be lightly against the web with no air gap.
6. Drive the grip hand through to the chest (mentally picture hitting the OB with the tip).
7. Stay down and still at the end of the delivery.

Practice this with no ball, cueing slowly along the baulkline making certain you are cueing straight in both the backswing and delivery (although the cue tip may go a little to the right as the grip hand hits the chest, don't worry about that).

If you are getting around 3hrs practice per day then give this new grip configuration AT LEAST 2 weeks before you go off again and try and alter something (in fact keep at it until Jan 25th at least). Remember, loose grip, slow backswing, drive through.

Terry

This grip and configuration is staying. Just trying to work on a starting point that I can feel to remind me each time. I am up loading three small videos I took this morning. Slow process on my wireless internet. Stay Tunned.

[j6uk]

sorry tel, a lot going on here so be patient with me.

j6uk:

The other famous coach asked me not to publicly say I've seen his training videos and analysis of a lot of the best pros.

Oh really are you sure you can't say I mean whats the secret? You've just leaked ron's grip already. But if he's doing videos and he's famous im sure he won't mind.
can you still get this famous coaches videos?

Another point...you advocate the 'circle' grip using forefinger and thumb and teach all your students that is the proper and only correct grip (or so you've said).

You've miss quoted me, don't advocate any circle grip. i suggest using the eye of the hand, and all the players i know would be using a variation of the same thing.

A coach has to realize the grip will never be 'one size fits all' and your circle grip may not be right for some players. Just look at a few of the pros...Ronnie keeps his forefinger up higher than the other fingers,

so ron does have his first finger on the cue?


Steve Davis has experimented with using the back 3 fingers and keeping the forefinger right off the cue and said he likes the grip (although I'm not certain if he's still using it or not but he used it a few years back when he beat John Higgins in the Worlds last 16)

you can appreciate that this is very very hard to believe, but i'll get back to you on that if you want.. if you don't want just say


and the big one was Alex Higgins who had his forefinger pointed straight down, the same as his thumb.

Yes, but, I think he might have been using the knuckle part of the first finger.

Virtually every great pro has a different grip and I believe every player should find what works for him and then use it consistently. You might have the right grip for YOU but it ain't necessarily the right grip for everyone.

no, i believe they are using variation of the same thing some more open and others tighter

Oh, and believe what you want regarding Ronnie's grip however it just doesn't matter because that grip is right for Ronnie but not might be right for most other players out there. Or else look Ronnie up sometime and show him your grip and see if he likes it for himself.

yes and i think ron is using the eye of the hand variable.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Videos

This grip and configuration is staying. Just trying to work on a starting point that I can feel to remind me each time. I am up loading three small videos I took this morning. Slow process on my wireless internet. Stay Tunned.

As I promised below you will find three videos. Would like to see my hand even back a little further from the table. But getting better. Let me know what you think.

[itsnoteasy]

Terry Griffiths has a couple of very good videos on the net, like J6 ,he advocates that the eye of the hand is the part that imparts the forward movement(if that's the right phrase) forming the ring with thumb and forefinger and the rest making the cradle ,opening on the way back and closing after contact, with the wrist straight, was the way I was shown, but being completely new to the game I didn't have any baggage so to speak with the grip going wrong as I didn't have a clue what I was doing so it was easier for me to change to the correct set up.
I do understand what Terry has tried, having your wrist cocked forward and the palm of your hand on the butt has to choke the life out of your cue action and stop a nice acceleration through and beyond the cue ball, especially if it doesn't open and close,and if this is the only way to get Les to do it, happy days.
As for Ronnie's grip it looks like a thing I saw Nic Barrow say on a video, he said as you come through the forefinger releases the pressure on the cue(I can't remember why you should do this, could be something to allow more follow through don't know) and on the videos his end of cue action shot looked very similar to Ronnie's full cue action grip, but I think he does have the ring grip just very lightly with the forefinger, I have no idea what the other fingers are doing but I'm sure I have seen him open and shut the back of his hand as normal, so even if the middle fingers start off with more weight on them it must change to the ring on the backswing to allow the other fingers to open, does that make sense?

[itsnoteasy]

So much better Les, so so much better, well done, the cue is coming through much straighter, still lots to do but that is a massive improvement

[RogiBear]

One thing I noticed on the videos, was head movement which is something a few commented on my vids about. On the final backswing, your head moves rather than just your eyes when you switch focus to the object. What affect does this have??

[itsnoteasy]

I'm guessing if you move you head up and the cue follows to keep it on the chin, the tip will dip, which means you can't be hitting the the cue ball where you addressed it.
Les what do you mean you would like to see your hand back a little further from the table, which hand and why.

[j6uk]

okay les,
but every shot was the same pace, not sure how it will hold up with more power. could move on and do a 15 red line with stun, run and screw. you might find you'll need to open up at the back a bit more and have more purchase on the cue from the eye of the hand as you start to accellerate

btw when you were sighting those shots i did notice a lot of staring going on, like you would stare at the white then stare at the cp on the cush then cue the ball. you might just get more feed back from your routines if you flicked your eyes though from cb-cp on every shot

[DeanH]

sorry but "searing" "sear", spelling mistake?

[j6uk]

bravo, well done. your well on your way to five stars.

sorry but "searing" "sear", spelling mistake?

[DeanH]

bravo, well done. your well on your way to five stars.

again sorry, but what is the correct word you wanted to use? As I am sure I did not see any steak being seared in the videos
"bravo" for what?

[j6uk]

bravo for seeing the mistake and your impute to the thread

again sorry, but what is the correct word you wanted to use? As I am sure I did not see any steak being seared in the videos
"bravo" for what?

[itsnoteasy]

I have a question about gripping with the two middle fingers, does it limit backswing length?, as you can only open your little finger as the next two are holding the cue, whereas if you have the ring hold you can open the back three allowing a longer backswing for the shots needing a bit more power.
Thought of something else lol, the longer backswing would also allow a slower start on the forward stroke and a gradual build up, but if it's short would you not have to apply acceleration from the get go?

[lesedwards]

I have a question about gripping with the two middle fingers, does it limit backswing length?, as you can only open your little finger as the next two are holding the cue, whereas if you have the ring hold you can open the back three allowing a longer backswing for the shots needing a bit more power.
Thought of something else lol, the longer backswing would also allow a slower start on the forward stroke and a gradual build up, but if it's short would you not have to apply acceleration from the get go?

Does not seem to limit my backswing. It feels really good. Been practicing all day with my son playing competitions such as best of 5 on long pots, following blue in side to side and also running the Yellow Brown Green. Now we will see how practice helps in a game.

[DeanH]

Nic Barrow's latest gadget.....

hi j6
how would you differenciate between staring and focus?
from your previous post you seem imply to not to change the "looking" from cue ball to contact point and back again. I tend to view the cue ball ti check u have the tip at the required point on the cue ball, then change focus to the contact point at the object ball, maintain this focus for the feathers and draw back and cue delivery. is this wrong?