Cueing at the Speed of Sound

[itsnoteasy]

I have tried for months to get to the point where I'm stroking the ball around, thought I had got it ,then watched Trump and realised I'm still hitting it far far to hard, even though I have improved greatly, I'm still miles off,ive got a lot of work to do on my timing. These pros are immense, truely different class.
I have read on here loads of times that Trumps up his own arse etc, I didn't see that at all, like you said, just a nice , very quiet lad.
Oh and he wore "those shoes" they're great in real life lol.

[Cannonball]

I have tried for months to get to the point where I'm stroking the ball around, thought I had got it ,then watched Trump and realised I'm still hitting it far far to hard, even though I have improved greatly, I'm still miles off,ive got a lot of work to do on my timing. These pros are immense, truely different class.
I have read on here loads of times that Trumps up his own arse etc, I didn't see that at all, like you said, just a nice , very quiet lad.
Oh and he worse"those shoes" they're great in real life lol.

Yeah, the fuddy duddys won't like the shoes, or the good looking girlfriend. Tut-tut! What sort of cloth are you on? Cuz I simply have to hit them harder on a 6811T compared to a no.10 on a Star, it's how we have to make the balls work sometimes. On a Star, I can drop the power 50% on some shots and no doubt it looks smoother and sweeter.

This thread is going nicely but it may A-bomb when Mr BS hits shore; just a few days to go. 'Now if a pool player can hit the ball sweetly with a 13mm tip, why can't snooker players..............' :biggrin-new:

[itsnoteasy]

Just the bog standard club cloth most of the time. We have just had the match tables done in the 6811 tournament cloth and that is like lightning compared to the club cloth, those star tables must be like glass, I bet I would look like a real thump whacker on one of them.

[cpserrao]

Ever noticed the Cue Ball jumping up or seen it kick, even at relatively low force? Listen.......................................you can hear it, the collision, yes, collision. It's not how hard or soft you hit it, it wasn't the choice of shot, it wasn't where you hit the CB, the clue is in the sound. The sound of your tip striking the CB. A dull sound, a kinda th-wack sound. Not crisp. This sound can happen at any force if you listen closely enough. That's the reason for the kick, or the lack of spin even when you know you struck the CB in the right place. That's what caused the collision. What could have caused this acoustic interference with the CB? There is an answer and there is a solution to both the sound and thus the kick.

Oh yes, yes there is.

So what is the reason? Suspense getting to me

[vmax4steve]

The main reason behind all this cue ball bouncing isn't bad cue actions, these slo mo's are films of the worlds best pro players, they all have great cue actions. The balls bounce because of the thinner cloths, they must have thinner cloths because the phenolic resin balls have too much friction between them on contact, and a good nap increases the resistance between the balls, thus increasing the friction.
These balls work very badly on club cloths, badly on tournament standard thinner napped cloths, and are irregular on the NO:10 cloths as well. The slightest bit of moisture in the air and it's kick city arizona and all the pros moan and bitch about it.

Ronnie gets as many kicks and bad contacts as anyone else, but he and a few others simply accept it and play on.

Good to have you back MB, but you're barking up the wrong tree as usual. Get yourself a set of old super crystalates, polish them up and get back to me.

[itsnoteasy]

I don't think he's right about the bouncing ball and tip movement, that's why I mentioned Trumps cue shuddering but he's definitely right that you hit the ball sweeter with a nice grip and a level cue that puts the force forward and right through the ball, I think that's why when you cue well you hardly feel the contact as you go through the ball, as the forces are all going in the right direction( just my take on it)
Our club balls are premiers and the white jumps at some level on every single shot above pocket weight and you get a bad contact at that pace lol.

[Neil Taperell]

Funny you should say that about the balls on club cloths , my mate has been banging on about using 1G's on club cloths . Saying that they are no good .

I've just cleaned my set and will be using them tonight , going to see how many kicks i get . As i read on here that someone reckons you get more kicks after they have been cleaned . But they needed doing , so used the Aramith ball cleaner .

[itsnoteasy]

Generally dirty tables in clubs Neil, you could be the umpteenth person on that table that day, that can cause a lot of bad contacts, my TCs are always clean, in a sesh I will get two or three bad contacts, compare that to the dirty club balls where I have had seven bad contacts in a row before,although they are premiers which are just a joke compared to the decent balls to be honest. TCs and 1Gs are fine on club cloths and you can move the cue ball around just as well if not better as it doesn't bounce around like the lighter balls.

[Neil Taperell]

I agree , much prefer to play with a decent set . Rather than club balls that haven't been cleaned as regularly as mine .

[Cannonball]

I don't think he's right about the bouncing ball and tip movement, that's why I mentioned Trumps cue shuddering but he's definitely right that you hit the ball sweeter with a nice grip and a level cue that puts the force forward and right through the ball, I think that's why when you cue well you hardly feel the contact as you go through the ball, as the forces are all going in the right direction( just my take on it)
Our club balls are premiers and the white jumps at some level on every single shot above pocket weight and you get a bad contact at that pace lol.

If you remember Physics at O or GCSE, there is the examination of constructive and destructive interference. Constructive interference leads to a crisp shot where power is effortless and a sweet crisp sound; energy has been transferred cleanly. Destructive interference from JVC's 'brass hammer' shot leads to a lot of vibration, a different sound. Sometimes, we'll say, that sounded good and it did because it was struck cleanly (usually with an open grip). Balls that are struck cleanly vibrate less and kick the OB less and make it jump less. Snooker is really a form of ballistics and we all know what happens to a bullet when it's been fired from a gun that hasn't been rifled well and kept clean and oiled; it flies badly, loses momentum and will miss the target. Hitting a ball really well to elicit that crisp sound is down to a more open grip and timing. These are qualities of the top cueists. We say that was a cracking shot not because the balls were split in half.

Premieres: why of why did Aramith design these balls? Yes, made from the same phenolic resin as all their balls but only 128g, too light (less material packed into the mould), they bounce all over the place. You can do a lot with the white ball to begin with but then it slows down a lot as it doesn't carry the same momentum to overcome cloth and air friction. No need for them in any club; TCs can be bought 2nd hand for the same money and polished a bit. TCs also last longer.

Super crystalates; hmm, probably not even 2 1/16th official size by now, barely 2", over 30 years since they stopped being made, worn down, polished, chipped. They do kick less but they don't travel as well, they're not as reactive, SC isn't as good as PR on that score. Overall, PR trumps them.

[Leo]

And you wonder why the boxing thread has hit off well.

[Cannonball]

The boxing thread is excellent. DS did a great job there, top bloke. I'm loving the emergence of White, Joshua, the comeback of the Champ! Tis all grand. But boxing ain't snooker and boxing coaching won't help you pot balls. Actually, it will, the mantra of smooth, fast speed is as true there as it should be in cueing. The heavy handed may clobber you with one but they'll never outbox you.

[mikeyd100]

If a cue pots a ball in a forest and there's no one there does it make a sound

I reckon it would be more interesting if you pot a ball in space.
Apparently there is no sound up there.... so how will that all work out then ?

[vmax4steve]

If you remember Physics at O or GCSE, there is the examination of constructive and destructive interference. Constructive interference leads to a crisp shot where power is effortless and a sweet crisp sound; energy has been transferred cleanly. Destructive interference from JVC's 'brass hammer' shot leads to a lot of vibration, a different sound. Sometimes, we'll say, that sounded good and it did because it was struck cleanly (usually with an open grip). Balls that are struck cleanly vibrate less and kick the OB less and make it jump less. Snooker is really a form of ballistics and we all know what happens to a bullet when it's been fired from a gun that hasn't been rifled well and kept clean and oiled; it flies badly, loses momentum and will miss the target. Hitting a ball really well to elicit that crisp sound is down to a more open grip and timing. These are qualities of the top cueists. We say that was a cracking shot not because the balls were split in half.

Premieres: why of why did Aramith design these balls? Yes, made from the same phenolic resin as all their balls but only 128g, too light (less material packed into the mould), they bounce all over the place. You can do a lot with the white ball to begin with but then it slows down a lot as it doesn't carry the same momentum to overcome cloth and air friction. No need for them in any club; TCs can be bought 2nd hand for the same money and polished a bit. TCs also last longer.

Super crystalates; hmm, probably not even 2 1/16th official size by now, barely 2", over 30 years since they stopped being made, worn down, polished, chipped. They do kick less but they don't travel as well, they're not as reactive, SC isn't as good as PR on that score. Overall, PR trumps them.

What complete and utter tosh. Where do you get all this bunkum from MB, you surely don't think it all up on your own, I would guess from Aramith's sales blog, desperately trying to come up with excuses for why their product doesn't work.
You haven't the experience with SC balls, "they do kick less but don't travel as well" what on earth does that mean ? Would Dramamine help ?
Jimmy White was screwing SC balls back for a laugh in the 80's, not as reactive my arse.

It's a fact that Saluc invented phenolic resin, needed a sales outlet for it and decided to make biliard balls, bought out the Composite Billiard Ball Company that made SC balls, stopped their production and foisted their inferior product upon us. It's been kicks and bad contacts ever since with every man and his dog making up excuses for, and trying to find the reasons why it's happening.
It didn't happen before PR balls came to be used, the odd kick here and there due to chalk and dirt on the balls. The PR balls kick when clean, kick when dirty, kick when cold, kick when warm, and if you're talking about sonics, you can hear the difference.

When SC's contact there is a clear crisp click, when PR's contact the click is noticeably duller, clunk with a bad contact and thud when kicking. I know, I use three different sets of balls on the match table in our club, the club set of TC's, my own set of Aramith SC's which are in fact a superior more closely weighted set of PR's, and a set of genuine SC's that I bought from ebay recently.

The old SC's are better in every respect, and Ive just got them out of their box and measured them with my digital calipers, all are the required 2 & 1/16 inch despite being thirty years old.

cue ball is 140.4 grammes
yellow is 141.1
green is 140.8
brown is 141.4
blue is 143.5
pink is 141.0
black is 141.3
reds are 143.3, 142.5, 143.0, 142.5, 142.6, 143.0, 142.5, 142.2, 142.9, 142.7, 143.2, 142.9, 143.1, 142.7 & 142.6.

All nice and shiny, no chips, virtually kick free snooker for £27 inc delivery.

[mikeyd100]

Vmax - have you ever emailed World Snooker to see if they would consider or even try out your idea re using the SC balls?