handmade ??? probably not !!!

[renzie67]

Obviously they are all taking a time out just now to keep up to date with
Emerdale , Corrie and Eastenders. Level playing field my butt bluejay ???
Total and utter bitchiness and envy of other people doing well a disgraceful
thread.

[renzie67]

I really don't get why some people are abusing Cris for starting this thread, surely you can understand why names can't be mentioned as it would be a personal choice, one with consequences, obviously a lot of people already know about this subject so i don't see the problem discussing it openly. I own a thai made cue from gbl and it really is a top quality cue, but I payed a reasonable price for it, I'd basically get the same cue from Will Hunt and other so called cue makers for nearly double, is that fair..? No! So if in the market for a new cue I'd choose wisely...

I would prefer a Will Hunt custom than just a Thai cue.

[jrc750]

I would prefer a Will Hunt custom than just a Thai cue.

So you willing to pay a lot more for the same cue ehh

[stejohn]

Lol, could you kindly explain the difference?

Edit, Doh beat me JRC!

[SouthPaw]

I would prefer a Will Hunt custom than just a Thai cue.

It is a thai cue lol

Edit: I think we've made our points

[renzie67]

I would also prefer a Wooldridge , Parris and Osborne to a Thai all who have been accused also. I have now made my point.

[jrc750]

I would also prefer a Wooldridge , Parris and Osborne to a Thai all who have been accused also. I have now made my point.

Not quite following you here, you mean you would prefer the kudos of having the badge (and paying more for it), even tho it's essentially the same cue that can be had for several hundred pounds cheaper ???

[stejohn]

That doesn't really make a point does it? You didn't even know Hunt cues were made by a Thai maker yet would rather buy 1 over a Thai cue?

Crispian is trying to make potential customers know a bit more about what goes on in the cue UK cue making trade so they maybe know do do some research before parting with hard earned cash. There is nothing wrong with that imo.

[Bigmeek]

I really don't get why some people are abusing Cris for starting this thread, surely you can understand why names can't be mentioned as it would be a personal choice, one with consequences, obviously a lot of people already know about this subject so i don't see the problem discussing it openly. I own a thai made cue from gbl and it really is a top quality cue, but I payed a reasonable price for it, I'd basically get the same cue from Will Hunt and other so called cue makers for nearly double, is that fair..? No! So if in the market for a new cue I'd choose wisely...

Had a look at the Greenbeize website and I see their GBL cues start at £194 for plain ebony. Are you saying Will Hunt start at around £400? Just trying to understand what all the fuss is about. A specific example would help me understand things....maybe. My mate has a GBL and its a cracker. Never seen a Will Hunt.

[crispian jones]

OK So Crispian has just rung me, He has explained alot of what has been going on with other UK makers with Thai cues ALL of which I didnt know was going on.
I seem to have got in the firing line as I have been the only cue maker to stand up and say something, defend myself.

So here is me -
I can say I have brought Thai shafts (Not spliced cues in any way, purely shafts). I have used these when my own supply of regular ash has not yielded nice enough arrows.
I have had Macassar ebony from a Thai cue maker, came as 1.5 inch blocks. I actually swapped this for some Thuya and Tulip as they cant get that over there so easily.
I have also had 8 thai cues (sent to me as samples) which were purely spliced ebony onto a shaft, not finished in any way. These were used on some plain butted cues as the grain of the ash was so nice. Perfect in fact. Some Macassar and some ebony.

The future -
I will continue to use Thai shafts (not spliced) as they are just so good.
*Although I will buy them direct, I wasnt aware until Crispian told me, that they were available in the UK.

I will continue to splice my own cues as I am doing now and call them handmade, even tho the shafts are supplied or tapered at another source.

Due to this thread, I am seriously considering buying in some Thai cues, finishing them and adding a Jason Owen Ti badge (not handmade), then stocking them on my website for immediate purchase. Think it will be a good under level cue to my standard cue.
But these wont come in to contact with my main cues.

On talking to Cris, I do understand where he and Dave Coutts are coming from. I feel I have done my apprenticeship in the cue making world, have spent thousands on the wrong bits of kits and sometimes the right.
This does make me annoyed that maybe others have not earnt their stripes and are just buying in Thai cues and selling them as their own handmade cues without ever actually being bale to make a cue from scratch. My previous cue making blog showed how I started out, I took this down due to the cue maker wanna bees continually asking for advice.

I personally worry about my own crap, as a newish maker working full time, I have explored different areas as every business should. I have passion for making cues, I am not gay and I would love for world peace.
Oh and Trees block views, cut em down!!!

jason credit to you for the honesty in your post !

as i disscussed with you on the phone earlier on, this is not a personal thing, and as suggested by nick it is not a publicity stunt on my behalf either !
this is a difficult issue that needs addressing, most of my gripes i disscussed with you earlier on the phone...

this will be my last post in this thread, as i feel like a total ****** at the moment, probably will for some time to come

the situation i found myself in over the past few years since my initial decission to persue cuemaking is quite frankly the lowest point in my life, most guys envy cuemakers as they think it is a well payed trade, sorry folks but thats one thing its not !
i am at this point in time over £30,000 in debt with my business with 4 kids and a wife who is in poland suffering with cancer
something im not bringing up for sympathy by the way !
now when it comes to my decission to be honest with the way i wanted to go, it has been more and more frustrating by the week as i am silly enoghf to read through this forum, seeing things done differently, and getting wound up as its not my chosen way, something that i can now see was foolish !
i was told from day 1 that honesty would get me knowhere, something i now understand, and this is what has brought about this thread, ive made batches of custom cues, roughly 12 at a time and the two traders who i offered them too both refused because the badges, they would have been happy to take them with handmade badges in them though !

the whole market is flooded with these thai cues now, and although it breaks my heart each time i badge one of my custom cues with them, i stand by my guns because i belive its the right thing to do !
i now realise that if i am to continue down this path i will never be happy unless i remove myself from forums such as this ! and concentrate only on my own business, i still believe that the badge situation is wrong, something that suprizingly never bothered me when i was a customer-so i can see the points of you guys who still say that.
in an ideal world customised cues would sell at £300 ish and genuine handmade cues £500+ (my own opinion) and i feel that way there would be a little more chance of some honesty, but hey im not the cue police

any how from this day on ive secured my own fate and will battle on alone, probably get a bit more work done if im not chatting so often anyway

as for this thread- it should never have started, for that i apolagize, ferret i did ask to to remove it so its your fault

oh and by the way if i listened to the advice early on and lied about my badges i would easily be £30,000 up

[Bigmeek]

I would also prefer a Wooldridge , Parris and Osborne to a Thai all who have been accused also. I have now made my point.

Don't understand your point. Could you clarify.

[billabong]

God you bitches make the pool World much more appealing , envy is one of the seven deadly sins.

Maxi would sort this out Renzie, or at least he wouldn't be wrong no matter what he said .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rob s]

I would also prefer a Wooldridge , Parris and Osborne to a Thai all who have been accused also. I have now made my point.

Nobody has accused parris cues of being Thai, well definitely not anyone on this thread anyway. From reading between the lines of what is being said and not said the alleged Thai cue converters are Will Hunt, Robert Osborne, Mike wooldridge, Jason Owen, Exquisite cues and maybe Andy Travis but that is a guess as it is just my interpretation on what's been said on this thread. I doubt anyone here is accusing John parris of finishing Thai cues especially with his 2 year waiting list for a 1 piece ultimate

[renzie67]

Of course I knew the Hunt was made by a Thai maker but with Hunts finishing , extra splicing etc it will be a better cue. Now I know you are all trying to get to Mike Wooldridge with this thread but you have to admit Mikes cues however they are made are great sought after cues I own 2 myself. They are also not cheap and I think he does ok. Hope Mike comes on and explains himself although he will just be sitting back checking his bank account probably . He may even be on the phone to JP saying look how these guys want to go about their business.

[mrbluejay]

Obviously they are all taking a time out just now to keep up to date with
Emerdale , Corrie and Eastenders. Level playing field my butt bluejay ???
Total and utter bitchiness and envy of other people doing well a disgraceful
thread.

Don't want to get into slanging match mate, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you did a job which was dependant upon you having a certain qualification, but you knew full well others doing the same job were making more money and reducing your opportunity to make money, without the qualification, would you keep quiet?