Im seriously losing my sanity with this game !!!! HELP !!!!

[pottr]

It was a surprise to me to see i wasnt standing with the line of aim aimed at the center or me, but more towards my left eye, and i only discovered this because i thought i need to check if im doing it right. The thing is, with the address position i had stood up, when i went to get down on the shot, i was actually bringing my left foot across the line of aim and leaving it to the right of line, not on it like it should be

A simplistic point to work on but will have massive consequences on the shot if incorrect. At least now you have a point of order for your own improvement pal.

Who were the coaches you visited? If they missed a problem with your stance on approach then I wouldn't trust their advice in how to brush the table, let alone your cue action.

[Belloz22]

A simplistic point to work on but will have massive consequences on the shot if incorrect. At least now you have a point of order for your own improvement pal.

Who were the coaches you visited? If they missed a problem with your stance on approach then I wouldn't trust their advice in how to brush the table, let alone your cue action.

I would never say who the coach was because it may be a one off and wouldnt want other people being influenced, he is well respected coach in the area so he must do things right. It always seemed though his sessions were made on the spot and majority was spent on positional play :s

The one coach I liked moved away so that sucked

[Belloz22]

So Ive done another short video - basically playing up and down the table, and few simple shots, and this is me playing with medium pace id say - I put the videos in Kinovea. Now I can see serious flaws, especially when I play up and down the spots - even though the white comes back straight, which would suggest centre ball striking etc, you can clearly see that my cue is aiming to the right of the white, and then completely comes across me to the left of the white - and I was shocked how back it is.

Now im not posting this to argue, im posting this video to show you what is happening when im trying to think of keeping elbow up, head still, grip loose, stance etc - so it is quite clear that even when im trying to do things right, there is something seriously wrong somewhere. Now im not arguing I have technical errors, I can see this, my problem lies in need to indentify what im doing, and having a solution has to how to fix it. At the moment I know I have flaws as people have picked up, yet I have no really understanding how you fix these errors.

So feel free to help, but remember, I have really trying in these videos to do all the technical things correct, slow draw back, pause, control push through, but obviously im not doing it right, or struggling to do it right.

So please help ??

Video is here - about 8mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBOB3...ature=youtu.be

[vmax4steve]

The head on camera position where you are playing over the spots shows that your upper arm is outside the line of the shot which means that your cue arm below the elbow is slanting in to the body in order to put the cue under your chin and on the line of aim.

This is fine, a lot of players do this, John Parrott did, but you must be aware that if you play like this then it's absolutely imperative that the shoulder must not come into the shot at all until after the cue ball has been struck.
There is sometimes a very fine line between contact with the cue ball and the shoulder coming into the shot on the follow through and I can see that your cue arm at the address position is at 90 degrees, which is technically correct but very precise as regards to when the shoulder comes into the follow through.

Those with a dead straight aligment can play like this, Ronnie is a perfect example as he uses his shoulder as part of his cue action, Hendry though could not as his cue was slightly behind his back. Look at any early footage of Hendry and you will see that he didn't drop his elbow at all.

I can see that you have at least three inches of cue beyond your grip hand so you could learn to hold the cue about an inch further back to take the address position a little bit back from 90 degrees which would make you strike the cue ball before the shoulder comes into the follow through instead of right at the moment of the strike which it seems to do now, and just before, I suspect, on many of your shots, especially those played with power.

Either that or learn a completely new stance to get that dead straight aligment.

Also in this video your are far more precise when getting down into the stance, and staying down on the shot after the strike, than you were when playing your dad in the first video. And you hit the ball far too hard for what you are trying to do with the cue ball, those balls off the blue spot can be hit half as hard and still screw back into the middle if you time them correctly
Something else to work on it seems.

[pottr]

Edge that grip back boyo!
You'll give yourself a bit more cue to push through so you won't have to hit the ball as hard. The slower and smoother you get through the ball, the more control you'll have.

Much better than before, your pause timings are a touch inconsistent but you will find your own timing soon enough.

Don't see the glass is half empty. Even when you nail all the technical points, you'll still miss balls. It's a tough game to get on top of.

Thanks for posting.

[alabadi]

Belloz I will just give some input on what I observed, I am sure there are coaches on here who can give you more technical tips how to cure your problems so here is what I saw.

the first part of the video screwing back which looks like you are playing from the pink spot couldn't tell exactly, it looks like your cue is elevated slightly high which means the tip is angled down and coming in steep, which showed on your last shot when you tighten the grip early and dropped your elbow it can cause miss cueing. I sometimes do this when playing bad, I have sometimes had 3-4 in a row. so try an keep the cue flatter to the bed by lowering the bridge and back arm slightly. I also thought you were snatching a bit, your feathers seem slow and controlled but your transition into the strike seems abrupt and not smooth kind of hurried.

the second part which seems you are playing from the blue spot screwing back, I did notice that your grip looks tight, I was looking at your knuckles and they seem squeezed, so I am sure you know this, and that is to relax your grip, something I have problems with myself.

in regards to the playing over the spots I have the same issue as you, I seem to hit across slightly to the left. I can see the cueball not hit the top cushion directly above the black spot however the cue ball then straightens up and comes back to the tip. this gives false information that we are cueing ok. I would suggest playing the same shot with more power this exaggerates the throw and you will find that the cueball doesn't comeback straight. I think this is happening due to either incorrect alignment or tightening the grip slightly which moves the tip of centre when striking the cueball, I'm sure coaches on here will give you a more detailed explanation.

all I can say keep at it, use Kinovea to analyse your game, although looking at shots in slow motion is really frightening. I sometimes can't believe how much movement I see when played back. looking at it in real time hardly shows anything.

some will say all this technology is over the top and not needed, I mean where was this 20 years ago, no one analysed every move to this level of accuracy. but at least it can show where you are going wrong or detect those movements you cannot see in real time, this is why sometimes you can go to a coach and they will not see these imperfections, so they will not pick up on it.

I think now more coaches like Nic Barrow, Terry Griffiths, Terry in Canada and others use technology to analyse a players performance which at least helps them to correct those imperfections not detected by the naked eye.

good look in your pursuit of mastering this game, its something we are all striving to do.

Alabbadi

[Belloz22]

Really do appreciate all the input guys, really wanna be technically sound by september when new season starts..... so this is my summer to kill these problems....


In terms of me not addressing the white center on, and then cueing across to the other side of the white as you can see on the head on shot....... how do I fix this, to me im down on the correct line but obviously im not.... and then my cue moves across the line bit time. How do I stop this or figure out when I do it??

[j6uk]

Like your vid Bell,
Good to watch, you showed strong technically but, I'd like to see something of you in and around the reds, for a more realistic view on your overall game

[j6uk]

Doing the matchbox and baulk line could help

In terms of me not addressing the white center on, and then cueing across to the other side of the white as you can see on the head on shot....... how do I fix this, to me im down on the correct line but obviously im not.... and then my cue moves across the line bit time. How do I stop this or figure out when I do it??

[alabadi]

In terms of me not addressing the white center on, and then cueing across to the other side of the white as you can see on the head on shot....... how do I fix this, to me im down on the correct line but obviously im not.... and then my cue moves across the line bit time. How do I stop this or figure out when I do it??

this is an issue that I struggle with, I was given a routine by a coach which helped me although I can sometimes when getting sloppy still do this especially on power shots.

the routine is simply get around eight reds and place them in two rows of 4 touching, a good start would be to place the first two either side of the brown spot on the baulk line and the rest below, stand directly behind them facing the black spot, take your cue and point it straight at the blue spot I suggest about 6-8 inches beyond the last two reds and point the to the cloth, slowly lower your cue ( keeping the tip on the cloth and pointing straight up the table in line with the spots) to split the reds apart to create a channel, so in effect you will have two rows of four reds separated by the thickness of your cue. when lowering the cue do it slowly so the reds are just separated by your cue thickness.

now place the cueball directly in front of the channel and inline with the spots.

so the idea is to cue up and down the spots through the channel, if you are cueing to the left or right you will disturb some of the reds, which ever side you clip you will know where your cueing is going wrong. this exercise can be set up for straight blues to the top pocket from the baulk line, blues across the table wherever you like.

I use to do this for 30 mins every time I solo practiced. I have stopped doing this now but feel I should start again as I have developed some bad habits.

I have attached an illustration to show you what I mean just in case my explanation isn't clear



Alabbadi

[Terry Davidson]

belloz:

What I noticed:

1. Elbow and upper arm inside the cue. Although not critical combined with your grip it's taking the cue off-line.
2. The is no definite wrist cock on the grip. The thumb should be pointed straight down and the knuckles should be parallel to the butt of the cue.
3. The grip is WAY too tight at the start of the delivery and gets even tighter. Try cueing using just your fingertips (thumb plus one or two fingers, and only the tips). This will show you that a tight grip is not needed at all in snooker (or golf either).
4. On some of the shots where we could see the grip arm you turn the wrist a bit and this will take the cue off-line all the time. Develop that wrist cock I mention above and get the knuckles parallel to the butt and hopefully level with it or even a bit above it but still parallel.
5. Use more pace when shooting the spots to emphasize any off-straight cueing.
6. Stop dropping the elbow at the start of the delivery. With your alignment this is the main problem you have along with the too tight grip. Concentrate on keeping the elbow up as high as you can on backswing and delivery. It will seem strange initially as it looks like you've been playing using your shoulder muscle since you started playing and this will be a tough habit to break.

Terry

[Belloz22]

belloz:

What I noticed:

1. Elbow and upper arm inside the cue. Although not critical combined with your grip it's taking the cue off-line.

Can you explain what you mean by this please?

2. The is no definite wrist cock on the grip. The thumb should be pointed straight down and the knuckles should be parallel to the butt of the cue.

So by this you mean my wrist is tilted away from me? So i should turn my wrist down and towards me more?

6. Stop dropping the elbow at the start of the delivery. With your alignment this is the main problem you have along with the too tight grip. Concentrate on keeping the elbow up as high as you can on backswing and delivery. It will seem strange initially as it looks like you've been playing using your shoulder muscle since you started playing and this will be a tough habit to break.

Why would i be dropping my elbow so early - is it because im trying to use my shoulder, or is it due to my grip hand being to far up the cue?? I really have tried to keep my elbow up and less movement from the shoulder, but because i cant suss why im doing it, its hard to cure. How would i stop this happening?

Terry

Thanks very much for the reply Terry, and everyone else. Just a few questions above if you dont or people dont mind answering

[j6uk]

I didn't notice or really understand much on that post but I could only add, from that short vid is, yes you could loosen your so called grip and make sure your consistently hitting from the elbow. Maybe look at stepping back and into the shot, you may of had a sofa behind you but I didn't see you stepping into the shot.
Do you have more vids?

Thanks very much for the reply Terry, and everyone else. Just a few questions above if you dont or people dont mind answering

[Terry Davidson]

belloz:

What I meant was your elbow is not directly over the cue but rather in towards your back by what looks like at least 2". Although this is not a major problem what you get is in order to deliver the cue straight your move the forearm in a tangent to the elbow and upper arm and shoulder rather than being able to drive it like a piston from the elbow. It means you must compensate for this tangent and coordinate that compensation.

Experiment with this...get your RIGHT armpit down as close to the table as you can and since they're connected this will have the beneficial effect of getting the LEFT shoulder up as far as it can go. Your left shoulder should be hidden or almost hidden behind your head when in the address position. Still in the address position cock your wrist out from your body and at the same time concentrate of getting the grip hand thumb pointed towards the floor and what should happen is the butt of the cue should be held more into the fingertips of the grip (not all the way to the fingertips though). Remember the primary hold on the cue should be with the upper part of the forefinger and thumb and there should be no pressure exerted on the butt from the end of the forefinger although it's still curled around the butt (sort of 'squeeze' the cue between the upper part of the thumb and forefinger but DO NOT exert a lot of pressure as that will put tension into the forearm.

The wrist when cocked should be turned to your LEFT so that the back of the hand comes up more to the vertical. The skin by the wrist should get 2-3 wrinkles in it. Maintain this wrist cock throughout the backswing and delivery and also through the feathering.

Yes, grip the cue a little further back and also extend your right (bridge) arm out to almost straight or even straight (Joe Davis style) which will help bring the right armpit down to the table. (The butt of the cue should be no more than 1" off the cushion and should stay at that 1" during the backswing and delivery.)

If you want to develop more accurate potting and consistency you HAVE TO keep the left elbow up as high as possible although in order to keep the cue on the same plane the elbow should drop SLIGHTLY AT THE END on a long backswing power shot and also drop a little more AT THE END OF THE DELIVERY but only on power shots where you are accelerating the cue a lot.

Right now what I see in both your videos is you start dropping the elbow at the START of the delivery and by the time you hit the cueball it has dropped over 1" and this means you are using your shoulder muscle to deliver the cue. The elbow should only drop AFTER you hit the cueball.

Work on your grip too. It should NOT tighten AT ALL until WELL AFTER the cueball has been struck. Right now you drop the elbow and tighten your grip before you strike the cueball and both of these will take the butt of the cue off-line and will be especially visible on longer power shots where you have used a longer (and crooked) backswing and a longer follow-through by dropping the elbow early. (Do NOT try and copy Ronnie as he does this dropping the elbow early, but as has been said he had his upper arm and elbow aligned perfectly behind the cue).

The reason you are dropping the elbow too early is two fold. In the first case your backswing is too short for the amount of power you want so in order to get that required acceleration you are using the stronger shoulder muscle (which is why Ronnie accelerates the cue so well, longer backswing for him too). So lengthen your backswing. The second reason is your grip is also tightening early in order to get the required acceleration and you are unconsciously tightening your grip right at the start of the delivery and that is a disaster for accurate cueing.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Thanks very much for the reply Terry, and everyone else. Just a few questions above if you dont or people dont mind answering

Two reasons why you're dropping the elbow too early,
1) you are holding the cue too far up the butt so that the elbow drops with the follow through before the cue ball has been struck.
2) when using power your grip on the cue is too tight because you're using too much force which makes you use the whole of your arm when playing the shot rather than just propelling the cue forwards from the elbow.

Seeing as you don't have perfectly straight alignment of cue, shoulder and arm all in a straight line on the line of aim any dropping of the elbow before the cue ball is struck results in the cue being taken off line.
Therefore it's imperative that you do not drop the elbow at all before the cue ball is struck.

How to stop it ?
difficult one to answer if you don't feel the shoulder coming into the shot, but (a) holding the cue an inch further to the end (keeping your bridge length the same) with (b) a relaxed loose grip should make sure that the cue ball is (a) struck before the elbow drops on the follow through and (b) take the tension out of your arm.
Try to feel the elbow swinging the cue to and fro while opening and closing the fingers of the hand. Try to get the hand to close fully only at the end of the follow through.